RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Darren Stephens]

But I'm not buying them. I buy a piece of paper which entitles me to
watch this stuff (and I can keep copies of the ephemeral stuff if I
wish, in the formats I choose, to watch when I choose). Which admittedly
looks a little like a DRM scenario but gives me rather more choice and
the option to maintain a physical artefact if I so wish. I'm saying that
*I* feel comfortable having a tangible object. YMMV.

 

Perhaps the lack of tangibility is one reason why some people (not me)
don't ascribe much value to what the BBC do and feel the need to snipe.
Those who pay the rental for a sky box can at least see the Murdoch
festering box squatting in the corner 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:47 PM
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

 

 

On 21/02/2008, Darren Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

All of this is true enough, but (and there's always a but) you still
have the physical artefact, don't you? Even if it's gaffer taped with a
hundred others, you still have the physical object you shelled out your
money for. The digital stuff is, by your own admission, descended from
the objects. Brands may be virtual but I for one prefer to buy  the
disc. Why? Because there's something tangible to show for the
transaction after completion, not something ephemeral that is rather
difficult to pin down. There is something that is identifiable as being
of worth.

 

No, I gave away all 486 Star Trek and 150+ Dr Who videos.  I no longer
need a loft to keep them in.

 

However I find it interesting that you link "something that is
identifiable" with "being of worth".   So the three billion Auntie
spends on telly, radio and downloads has no worth, by your definition.

 

I suspet that the linkage you state is not real, and is simply a matter
of faith to people who used to make money from it.

 

It's a bit like when CDs started and people said they would never catch
on because people NEEDED gatefold and poster sleve, that CD cases were
"too small" and so on.  

 

Just the Satus Quo, the status quo becomes old hat.  I love seeing all
the old pre-war cars doing the London to Brighton run, but people
wouldn't rush out to buy them...

 

 

 

That's not to say I don't buy the ephemeral stuff - I have
purchased stuff on my iPod - but I am certainly more cautious about
buying items that way. How unusual I am I can't say.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:08 PM
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

 

 

On 20/02/2008, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the
only winner in this battle must be the online services.

However I'm still left wondering when the general public will
get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look
and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs.

 

 

I was talking to Dave about this in Edinburgh.

 

The thing is, the current evidence suggests that this might be a
false assumption.

 

From a physiological point of view, lots of marketing efforts
does indeed go into selling "things" to people.  However, the modern
liberal international capitalist system puts a lot of effort into
promoting "brands", which a not things, but virtual.  

 

It is quite a logical step to say that brands therefore exist in
cyberspace.  They have value only as something that is possessed by a
company that hey can use.

 

I've got three enormous boxes that I have all my CDs in.  I
gaffer taped them up when I finished MP3ing them, which was years ago
now.  How many times have I unpacked them?  None.

 

I've got a Vista Media Center with all my music on it, and I can
copy and play this (using www.orb.com  ) anywhere.
It's connected to the TV and has a remote control, and does my videos
and all my thousands of photos.  I can access all this lot from where
ever with one remote control. 

 

I'm not alone.  Everyone with an MP3 player (say an iPod) can
carry around an amount of music you couldn't carry around in a transit
van if it were on vinyl. 

 

Look, I'm such a nerd that I bought all of Star Trek (not
Enterprise, obviously but with the Cartoons), Doctor Who and Blake's
Seven on VHS and they took up the whole damn loft!  Now I can have it
all on a box smaller than half a VHS cassette. 

 

And if that's not enough.  To quote from Down The Line, "What is
point DVD?"

 

The weirdest exam result (was the A) I got for an AO Level in
"Science in Society", so I've known about the idea of "peak oil" and

Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Sean DALY]

Or reuse -- think of DAT, which the music industry succeeded in
killing as a consumer format in the late 80s and was relegated to
recording studios, but which got a new lease on life as a SCSI data
backup format.

The original CD-Audio Red Book gave rise to the CD-ROM XA Yellow Book
after all (multisession and strengthened data correction).



On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Fearghas McKay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:
>  > Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?
>
>  I don't think HD-DVD machines have suddenly stopped working.
>
>  As others have said - why should they because they supplied content to
>  you in the format of your choice change it because the supply chain of
>  suitable players may run out at some point in the future? If you are
>  an early adopter of a competing technology you are probably aware of
>  the risks of being left in a cul de sac  hardware wise, but the device
>  doesn't just stop working overnight.
>
>
>
> f
>  -
>  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
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Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Richard P Edwards]

Toshiba seem to have a bigger game plan.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUST28617520080220

You have to love the timing. On the same day as they effectively lose  
one battle, they amortise some of their losses with an extra $800  
million investment. The better Sony do now, the bigger cut Toshiba get.


I would love to know who it was that decided to make the two systems  
incompatible.. once again, if that hadn't have happened HD-DVD  
could have still lost, but without the public's purchases becoming  
pretty much obsolete, and the hardware would still have a market.
There are probably more than 100,000 unsatisfied European customers  
at the moment, by the figures on the net.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3LIL6dBGDGSJKaC2z7Z0mnBrZow

Rich

P.S. Good to see that the BBC are over their Rights Holders licensing  
issues! :-)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080219/wr_nm/bbc_apple_dc



On 22 Feb 2008, at 12:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How  
many people
bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format  
wouldn't

have gone belly up.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber
Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be
good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck
buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'.
Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at
it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under
their TV would want a PS3 instead though.


On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:

Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?


 Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice  
gesture,

 but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for

example)

 WH Smith offered to do that.

 I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from  
any

other

 technology war...

 Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question -  
why don't

you
 mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately  
from the

 rest of the BBC after all)




 Michael.
 -
 Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
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Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Fearghas McKay]

On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:

Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?


I don't think HD-DVD machines have suddenly stopped working.

As others have said - why should they because they supplied content to  
you in the format of your choice change it because the supply chain of  
suitable players may run out at some point in the future? If you are  
an early adopter of a competing technology you are probably aware of  
the risks of being left in a cul de sac  hardware wise, but the device  
doesn't just stop working overnight.


f
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Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Matt Barber]

These are all good points - I like the idea of the HD-DVD trade in
when you buy a playstation 3.
I haven't got either format yet - I have an HDTV, but at the moment
use it more as a PC screen than anything :\. Might get a blu-ray drive
for my PC.

What about the rumours of a blu-ray drive for the 360 emerging in a
few months? It's all hear-say but I can't tell what marketing
Microsoft may pull out of their hats considering the shift in
attention to bluray.

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:42 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How many people
>  bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format wouldn't
>  have gone belly up.
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber
>  Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58
>  To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
>  Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
>
>
>
> I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be
>  good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck
>  buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'.
>  Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at
>  it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under
>  their TV would want a PS3 instead though.
>
>
>  On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:
>  >  > Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?
>  >
>  >  Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture,
>  >  but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for
>  example)
>  >  WH Smith offered to do that.
>  >
>  >  I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any
>  other
>  >  technology war...
>  >
>  >  Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't
>  you
>  >  mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the
>  >  rest of the BBC after all)
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  Michael.
>  >  -
>  >  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>  please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
>  http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>  >
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>
>
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[backstage] Now it's MR shit for brains

[Brian Butterworth]

As you all know, DG Mark Thompson called Culture Sec Ma Tessa J "Mrs Shit
for Brains" [1]

Seems like we have a new CultSec, who seems to be trying for the same
epiteph, but with a male prefix:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/feb/22/digitalmedia?gusrc=rss&feed=media







[1]
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/2007/10/michael_whites_political_blog_19.html

RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[zen16083]

Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How many people
bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format wouldn't
have gone belly up.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber
Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be
good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck
buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'.
Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at
it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under
their TV would want a PS3 instead though.


On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:
>  > Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?
>
>  Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture,
>  but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for
example)
>  WH Smith offered to do that.
>
>  I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any
other
>  technology war...
>
>  Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't
you
>  mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the
>  rest of the BBC after all)
>
>
>
>
>  Michael.
>  -
>  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
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>
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RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Frances Berriman]

Why would they?  What's the money sense to them?  They won.  They need
to look at how to get people still buying regular DVDs to start buying
BlueRay.  People who buy HD-DVD are already up for buying into next-gen
stuff. 

No busines is going to trade HD-DVD for BR either, unless say... HMV
want to shift a bunch of PS3s perhaps (hey, buy a PS3 and we'll trade in
3 of your HD-DVDs for BR versions free!). 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber
Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be
good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers
- come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'.
Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at
it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under
their TV would want a PS3 instead though.


On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:
>  > Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?
>
>  Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture,

> but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for 
> example)  WH Smith offered to do that.
>
>  I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any

> other  technology war...
>
>  Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why 
> don't you  mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run 
> seperately from the  rest of the BBC after all)
>
>
>
>
>  Michael.
>  -
>  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, 
> please visit 
> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
> Unofficial list archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>
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Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Matt Barber]

I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be
good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck
buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'.
Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at
it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under
their TV would want a PS3 instead though.


On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:
>  > Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?
>
>  Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture,
>  but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example)
>  WH Smith offered to do that.
>
>  I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other
>  technology war...
>
>  Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you
>  mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the
>  rest of the BBC after all)
>
>
>
>
>  Michael.
>  -
>  Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
> Unofficial list archive: 
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>
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Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Michael]

On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote:
> Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?

Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture,
but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) 
WH Smith offered to do that.

I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other 
technology war...

Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you
mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the
rest of the BBC after all)


Michael.
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Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray

[Brian Butterworth]

Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions?

On 21/02/2008, Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Actually one of those 8 title hits when you do a search is HD-DVD ("Planet
> Earth" appears twice). The BBC have been pretty good on making sure both
> formats are supported equally with the extremely limited releases they've
> made to date.
>
> There was one title in the original batch of releases ("The Tudors Season
> One") that was Blu-Ray only but that's because it was actually put out by
> Sony and not the Beeb. Sony were obviously never going to put out a title
> on
> the rival HD-DVD format.
>
> Now that the last two HD-DVD exclusive hold-outs (Universal and Paramount)
> have announced they're moving to Blu-Ray I think there's litte doubt that
> the Beeb will do the same when their next batch of titles are announced.
>
> Ian
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Sparks
> Sent: 21 February 2008 22:56
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
>
> On Thursday 21 February 2008 13:41:21 Andy wrote:
> > A more important question is will the BBC be providing it's programs
> > on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD?
>
> BBC Shop has 8 titles as blu ray & 7 as HD DVD.
>
> cf : http://www.bbcshop.com/ (search for "Blu ray" and HD respectively
> (note quotes round blu ray :) )
>
>
> Michael.
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
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>
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>



-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv