Re: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get?
You'll find youtube has the same problem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Ant On 09/02/2010 00:51, Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.uk wrote: I've noticed that for some reason blend deinterlacing is still being used on all BBC Video footage (iPlayer, inline footage on News/Sports sites, etc). It looks naff, causes image doubling in areas of high movement and makes scrolling credits harder to read. (Also don't think it looks as good and halves the perceived framerate) As reference, the doubling is very noticeable on a recent episode of Hustle in the 'action areas': http://i46.tinypic.com/14jxctd.png (a deck of cards is being fountained upwards, falling down onto the camera - note the overlapping ghosts of the moving cards). I first wondered if this was a limitation of how Flash renders interlaced-encoded video, but I happened to be watching a particular sporting event via an unofficial Justin.tv stream and the motion was fluid and crisp. From that I can only assume all BBC videos are encoded as progressive, and as such the Blend deinterlacing is burnt in, with the same going for Live streams... If the content is being deinterlaced from a broadcast source, why not use Bob or Weave? Blend just looks awful, motorsports/action looks dire and even regular stuff looks pants. So, in the absence of any known point of contact for the bods in charge of digitisation across the BBC's online platforms, can someone advise me as to whom I should be addressing my angry letters and suggestions for improvement? ;) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get?
Christopher Woods wrote: I've noticed that for some reason blend deinterlacing is still being used on all BBC Video footage (iPlayer, inline footage on News/Sports sites, etc). Can you confirm if you are seeing the same problem on World Service footage? You can reach our two TV channels at bbcarabic.com/tv and bbcpersian.com/tv, although Persian does not come on air until early afternoon. Can you also compare them against clips elsewhere on the Arabic/Persian sites? They are ingested using a different workflow and so are processed in a different way. So, in the absence of any known point of contact for the bods in charge of digitisation across the BBC's online platforms, can someone advise me as to whom I should be addressing my angry letters and suggestions for improvement? ;) The links from http://www.bbc.co.uk/help/about/technical_fault.shtml are probably your best bet. It might take a while for the feedback to work through Capita, but World Service iPlayer feedback does reach my team eventually so I know the forms do work. -- Gareth Davis | Production Systems Specialist World Service Future Media, Digital Delivery Team - Part of BBC Global News Division * http://www.bbcworldservice.com/ * 500NE Bush House, Strand, London, WC2B 4PH - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get?
--- On Tue, 9/2/10, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: From: Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get? To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Date: Tuesday, 9 February, 2010, 10:48 You'll find youtube has the same problem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 Ant On 09/02/2010 00:51, Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.uk wrote: I've noticed that for some reason blend deinterlacing is still being used on all BBC Video footage (iPlayer, inline footage on News/Sports sites, etc). It looks naff, causes image doubling in areas of high movement and makes scrolling credits harder to read. (Also don't think it looks as good and halves the perceived framerate) As reference, the doubling is very noticeable on a recent episode of Hustle in the 'action areas': http://i46.tinypic.com/14jxctd.png (a deck of cards is being fountained upwards, falling down onto the camera - note the overlapping ghosts of the moving cards). I first wondered if this was a limitation of how Flash renders interlaced-encoded video, but I happened to be watching a particular sporting event via an unofficial Justin.tv stream and the motion was fluid and crisp. From that I can only assume all BBC videos are encoded as progressive, and as such the Blend deinterlacing is burnt in, with the same going for Live streams... If the content is being deinterlaced from a broadcast source, why not use Bob or Weave? Blend just looks awful, motorsports/action looks dire and even regular stuff looks pants. In the case of Youtube you don't know whether the user already uploaded it with blended fields. Youtube's ingest/encode chain is based on mencoder (a very old one at that) and if I remember rightly they use one of the deinterlacers built in to mencoder. Bob wouldn't be particularly useful because doubling the framerate, whilst making the image more fluid, would require higher system requirements. Weave would be worse than blending because it would leave combing artefacts everywhere. Flash doesn't have any deinterlacer built-in. There are plenty of free pixel-adaptive deinterlacers out there though such as Yadif or a decomb filter could be used. There are even some painfully slow motion compensated ones that would be probably be in the same league as expensive snell and wilcox equipment. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC iPlayer for Apple TV
Sorry been out at Fosdem, so missed this. Will post it up on backstage, good work Tweed! Still enjoy XBMC with iplayer support but this will make the Apple TV a lot more interesting for friends of mine. Secret[] Private[x] Public[] Ian Forrester Senior Backstage Producer BBC RD North Lab, 1st Floor Office, OB Base, New Broadcasting House, Oxford Road, Manchester, M60 1SJ -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Jonathan Tweed Sent: 03 February 2010 13:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer for Apple TV On 3 Feb 2010, at 13:09, Mo McRoberts wrote: Really really not a fan of Boxee's UI. Nor XMBC's, for that matter. Both seem pretty sluggish on the aTV, especially compared to the native UI. Which is exactly why I made this. I didn't buy an Apple TV to run Boxee. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get?
On 9 Feb 2010, at 11:42, Kieran Kunhya wrote: There are plenty of free pixel-adaptive deinterlacers out there though such as Yadif or a decomb filter could be used. There are even some painfully slow motion compensated ones that would be probably be in the same league as expensive snell and wilcox equipment. If you could provide details of motion-compensated software deinterlacers that are comparable in quality to the S+W ones, that would be really interesting and useful. TIA, S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get?
--- On Tue, 9/2/10, Stephen Jolly st...@jollys.org wrote: From: Stephen Jolly st...@jollys.org Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC Flash video and deinterlacing - is this really the best we can get? To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Date: Tuesday, 9 February, 2010, 15:55 On 9 Feb 2010, at 11:42, Kieran Kunhya wrote: There are plenty of free pixel-adaptive deinterlacers out there though such as Yadif or a decomb filter could be used. There are even some painfully slow motion compensated ones that would be probably be in the same league as expensive snell and wilcox equipment. If you could provide details of motion-compensated software deinterlacers that are comparable in quality to the S+W ones, that would be really interesting and useful. TIA, S The two that are the best are TempGaussMC_beta1mod and MCBob2 both with nnedi2 as the interpolation mode. Expect speeds of 0.1fps or so... A few years back someone did a comparison with s+w hardware (can't find the link unfortunately); the hardware won but not by a large margin. However, the software deinterlacers aren't developed much any more. (probably because a lot of material is progressive these days) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
