RE: [backstage] DRM and hwardware attitudes
Hello http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6353889.stm DRM software like Apple's Fairplay or Microsoft's Windows Media DRM should properly be called digital restriction management, since its primary goal is to limit what purchasers can do with downloaded content. (from Bill Thompson) Isn't the argument for DRM all but already lost? Why automatically regard purchasers as suspect criminals ... seems like a very negative relationship to have with your customers. A lot of the time record companies, for instance, have already had so many bites of the cherry selling music on vinyl, then the same music again on tape, CD and now as downloads. Don't think the BBC should waste time and money DRMing content that it provides. It doesn't DRM content on its TV and radio stations, so why should it discriminate against people who access material online? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:39 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] DRM and hwardware attitudes Imagine if your local library imposed DRM on the books it lent you, you'd only be able to read them in certain places with certain light sources. Why do you accept unreasonable restrictions (even paying for the privilege) on music that you'd never except with the written word? Well libraries have a separate system. They lend you the books for free for (say) a month, and once you break the terms and conditions of the library (i.e. you don't return your book on time) they fine you.A library is not after all, a free for all. And that's in a way what DRM is all about - upholding the terms and conditions of your usage of the file. Of course an alternative way would be to automatically fine you every time you breached the terms and conditions. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage ] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backsta ge] £1.2 billion question (or RE: [backstage] BBC Bias??? Click and Torrents)
If the ONLY distribution channel open to artists/record labels was a libre channel sans DRM, would the artists/record labels (etc) stop producing and distributing? I think not. They will still make more money out of such libre publishing than they would: (1) if they didnt publish at all (2) if they had published years ago when fewer people had access to such material in the form of vinyl, cds, tape, etc. A libre distribution channel sans DRM has to be the most profitable long-term model, so long as it is tagged to a sensible pricing structure. Better a slice of a huge non-DRM cake, then to have the whole of a tiny DRM cake that alienates your customers. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of vijay chopra Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:07 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] £1.2 billion question (or RE: [backstage] BBC Bias??? Click and Torrents) On 13/02/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your argument is that all music should be utterly free. Which, while a nice idea in Davetopia, or wherever you live, is completely unworkable. I suspect that he would like all music to be free (libre), not free (gratis), and why would it be unworkable? Study Finds P2P Has No Effect on Legal Music Sales: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/13/1332214 What are the artists worried about, or more technically what are the record labels and agents worried about, i suspect that the artists don't mind anywhere as much as organisations like the BPI Vijay
RE: [backstage] Ad Blocking (was: HD-DVD how DRM was defeated)
Try offering content that people want instead, and ask them to show support by clicking on the ads Most ad programs prohibit publishers from asking readers to click on ads as a way of showing support. Advertising pays for a lot of work on the net and it doesnt hurt to show a bit of support by visiting an advertiser if only for a second or two. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of vijay chopra Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 4:30 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Ad Blocking (was: HD-DVD how DRM was defeated) On 26/02/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a point of interest, larger website owners *do* pay for the serving of the ads (as well, in most cases, as the advertiser). Incidentally, I have written stuff (for one of my websites) which blocks website content if the ads don't load. It's quite easy to do, depending on how your ads are being served. If ad-blockers grow, you'll see a ton of these scripts proliferating on the web. (Given the stats from one of the websites I'm responsible for, I estimate that 5% of pages are served to people with adblockers; which I see as fairly acceptable - 20% might not be, though). J As was pointed out, Adblock can download the ads then hide them client side. You're making a rod for your own back by doing that as I'll put a heavier load on your server yet still not see the ads, and as Jason pointed out it supposedly lowers the CTR (I'm unconvinced, I've never seen an ad that I wanted to click anyway) as well. So let the various content blocking scripts proliferate, as long as I can do what I like with my client they will not only remain pointless, but actually harm you. Try offering content that people want instead, and ask them to show support by clicking on the ads; if they have an adblocker, and your stuff is good, you should have no need for said scripts as your community will *want* to support you. Vijay.
RE: [backstage] Ad Blocking (was: HD-DVD how DRM was defeated)
I think Jason makes a very good point in his mail below: advertising does work. This is especially true with the context based ads served by companies like Google where when you visit websites you can usually find ads that are relevant to what you are already looking at. They are just the same as going to Google and doing a search from the home page: Google serves up fairly relevant ads and links. On a regular Google search, I will normally look at the ads first rather than at the search results, especially if I am looking to buy a product or a service. I also carry ads on some websites I run, and have got to say that the ads served to the websites are relevant and people clearly do read and respond to the ads. I am an advertiser as well through Google and am very happy with the business that the ads generate. Of course, some people refuse to click on ads and don't ever want to see them - but, from experience, I'd say that such people are in a minority. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Cartwright Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:21 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Ad Blocking (was: HD-DVD how DRM was defeated) Doesn't. Depends whether the ad is good enough for you to click on. Not seen one yet - doubt I ever will. Yet more proof that this list is not indicative of the general internet users (which is understandable). Adverts get clicks and people make money from it. LOTS of money - for instance Google made $1.2bn from Adsense (Google Ads on non-Google sites) last quarter. This is primarily Pay-Per-Click money, I'd imagine. Jason - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM?
I fully respect Andrew's point of view as written below, but - with respect - I struggle to agree with it. Years ago, before PCs and printers, if people wanted anything copied they had to go to the local shop or library where they could use a photocopier. Today, they just use their own scanners and printers to make their own copies. Similarly, people used to have to send their film off for printing, but these days lots of people have digi cameras and their own home photo printers. If something is technologically possible, people will use it. We can't hold back time. Lots of businesses and industries disappear - a kind of natural selection. Good business diversify and develop into new products and markets. In any event, the DVD rental store it going to be put out of business anyway by content being delivered over the net. Or should that also be stopped? Yes, the industry model we have NOW may lose out on some sales, but there is no reason why it can't develop and make a good profit using other distribution channels and business models. I think we're in danger of trying to deal with 21st century technology with 19th century thinking and laws. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:18 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM? The claim is mostly inaccurate because it presupposes that the friendwould otherwise have bought a copy from the DVD store. That isoccasionally true, but more often false; and when it is false, theclaimed loss does not occur. As people are taking my attempt at humour seriously, I'll have to respond. No. They may not come into my DVD rental store. But they *might*. They might go somewhere else. They might go online. They might go to WH Smith. However they won't do ANY of those things if you go willy-nilly re-distributing copies of the DVD you've rented from me. Ergo, me, as a small shop keeper, am about to be evicted from my house because my business has been destroyed due to hoardes of people copying DVDs and giving them to everyone else. And what about my wife and childen? But when your friend avoids the need to rent a copy of a DVD, thestore and the producers do not lose anything they had. A more fittingdescription would be that the store and producers get less income thanthey might have got. The same consequence can result if your frienddecides to play discuss post-internet copyright on BBC mailing listsinstead of watching a DVD. In a free market system, no business isentitled to cry foul just because a potential customer chooses notto deal with them. I would never cry foul because someone doesn't do business with me. However my DVD rental store relies on some people doing business. Just as Joe's store down the road does. And Fred's online store. And so on. This is not about me losing out because you've copied my DVD and given it to every one you know. This is about the whole industry losing out because a proportion of the people you give that copied DVD to, would have gone to my shop otherwise and now won't rent DVD. And if the market is reduced by people redistributing for free, then other people lose their income. And hey, it's always going to be the little people who suffer most. Which is for me, an ethical argument. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM?
Free lunch? Nah. You've just destroyed the entire model that funded the film. Thousands of people who would have had work, now have none. Sure, some people /might/ buy the official DVD, but others won't. The funding isn't there. If a film company can't produce a film and make money from it through its own distribution model, then in the end it will stop making films. There are plenty of people who would like to make money doing what they like, but can't find a way of making their revenue stream work. The market decides - the market isn't there to support bad business models. Film companies, etc, will have to adapt to survive and thrive. As an analogy, we're moving, in terms of energy supply, to micro production rather than having huge power supplies vast distances away. Maybe it is the same with media. The time of the blockbuster and the TV channel as we knew it is dead? Maybe this is a new micro media age? What's wrong with that? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:29 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM? The media producers are clearly getting a free lunch here, they can sell the same thing again and again, never having to give up any of there own possessions but requiring others to surrender their items in exchange. Lord of the Rings. Three big budget films. How do you think they got financed? Someone looked at the budgets and said Right. Lets say we make this much in ticket sales, this much in merchandise, this much in DVD sales. But whack! Copyright is gone, so the DVD income goes. Copyright affects the merchandise because anyone can legally knock off merchandise without the sayso of the people who created it. Oh and the cinema doesn't have to worry - it can just get one copy and give it to the rest in its chain. And lo, the film can no longer be financed. Free lunch? Nah. You've just destroyed the entire model that funded the film. Thousands of people who would have had work, now have none. Sure, some people /might/ buy the official DVD, but others won't. The funding isn't there. To bring this to the BBC, the BBC's commercial arm, BBC Worldwide, pumps money into some programmes on the basis that it knows it will make money back off DVD sales, book sales etc. Let us not forget that there is no natural need for copyright, we could function fine without it. It is only through government legislation that such a thing exists. Maybe we would. But maybe a lot of things you value, would be destroyed. If I want to spend time on a project, then release it freely to all, that's my decision. However if I spend my time on a project and want to try and make money off it, why shouldn't I? It's my idea, my project. Why should I let someone else make money off it if I don't want to. And you're going to have one hell of a time persuading the population of the world that they should reliquish all rights to their work because some people have a completely anti-copyright stance. Most of them will just think you're bonkers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM?
So, how do you propose to fund a multi-million pound film in a different business model? I don't propose funding a multi-million pound film, so it is not my concern. If it can be made, it can be made. If it can't be made, it can't be made. If people don't want to pay for films, then don't make them. My neighbour wishes they still made wooden boats like the Mary Rose, but I and my mates are not going to stump up some millions to satisfy his (and some other people's) desires. I am not advocating any illegal act. Copyright is the law and we /should/ abide by it. But in the real world, it is easily breached - just as most people break the law at some point by dropping littler, speeding, etc. In the end, the law is unenforceable on any meaningful scale. Copyright is like King Canute: nice intention, but completely insane if you think it is ever going to work in any meaningful way. You'll make more money by finding a model that does work, then trying to rely on the /watertight sieve/ that is copyright. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 10:05 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM? If a film company can't produce a film and make money from it through its own distribution model, then in the end it will stop making films. There are plenty of people who would like to make money doing what they like, but can't find a way of making their revenue stream work. The market decides - the market isn't there to support bad business models. Film companies, etc, will have to adapt to survive and thrive. So, how do you propose to fund a multi-million pound film in a different business model? Budget for the entire Lord of the Rings series incidentally was $270m apparently. That's a lot of dosh to have to get in any ones books. As an analogy, we're moving, in terms of energy supply, to micro production rather than having huge power supplies vast distances away. Maybe it is the same with media. The time of the blockbuster and the TV channel as we knew it is dead? Maybe this is a new micro media age? What's wrong with that? Time of big blockbusters is dead? I really doubt it. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM?
Of course it is about laissez-faire economics: business is, as business always has been. But if he somehow managed to find an investor to stump up the money for just such a boat, with the idea that he would make a profit by selling jaunts on the ship, would you and your mates refuse to pay for a pleasure ride but steal the ship during the night and offer free rides to everyone in your town so that he had no way of making back his money? I am not advocating using things for nothing. I'm saying DRM and copyright protection are meaningless, expensive, wasteful, fanciful, and unintelligent ways of trying to enforce payment/control usage. Nobody's asking you to pay for music or films you don't watch or listen to. Which, again, is exactly the point I'm making. People here are saying there has to be a model to protect producers so they can afford to make what they want to make. My point is that people will pay for things if the producers produce worthwhile and desirable products. Though, as an aside, to be true to the truth, the licence fee does ask people in the UK to pay for content they don't watch or listen to. But that's another point entirely. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Deirdre Harvey Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:08 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM? King Canute was just showing his men that even though he was the king, he couldn't hold back the see. poor Canute, so misunderstood. So, how do you propose to fund a multi-million pound film in a different business model? I don't propose funding a multi-million pound film, so it is not my concern. OK, so this isn't about ethics then, it's about dogmatic laissez-faire economics with a sprinling of darwinian pseudoscience sprinkled on top? If it can be made, it can be made. If it can't be made, it can't be made. If people don't want to pay for films, then don't make them. My neighbour wishes they still made wooden boats like the Mary Rose, but I and my mates are not going to stump up some millions to satisfy his (and some other people's) desires. But if he somehow managed to find an investor to stump up the money for just such a boat, with the idea that he would make a profit by selling jaunts on the ship, would you and your mates refuse to pay for a pleasure ride but steal the ship during the night and offer free rides to everyone in your town so that he had no way of making back his money? Nobody's asking you to pay for music or films you don't watch or listen to. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM?
Please to no more sophomoric nonsense about broken business models and how we need to walk into the shining future without a backward glance. Cool. What you don't understand, you call sophomoric nonsense. Think you've won the argument there, at least with yourself. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Deirdre Harvey Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:17 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 01 March 2007 10:59 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Percentage of License fee going towards DRM? Many people mistakenly take for granted that this is the basic idea of copyright, but it is not. It was set up with the sole purpose of benefiting the public. When the public decide they would rather do without it, that is entirely justifiable. That is not true. Copyright was an attempt to balance the needs of the author with the public good. That is why it is of (supposedly) limited duration - you gets your chance to make your money and then you sets it free. The problem with granting monopoly rights, even temporary ones is that they can be used by the powerful to bully the weak, as has happened with copyright (or IP as they'd like to have it) law. I think the original time-limited (14 years as it was in the US) copyright term was a good idea. If anyone can think of a better model for making it possible for people to realise financial benefit from stuff they have created I'm all about hearing it. Please to no more sophomoric nonsense about broken business models and how we need to walk into the shining future without a backward glance. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC on YouTube
Would seem to weaken the case for any DRM - especially as the Beeb appears to be condoning independent use of its material: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6411017.stm The corporation will also get a share of the advertising revenue generated by traffic to the new YouTube channels. Mr Highfield said the BBC would not be hunting down all BBC-copyrighted clips already uploaded by YouTube members - although it would reserve the right to swap poor quality clips with the real thing, or to have content removed that infringed other people's copyright, like sport, or that had been edited or altered in a way that would damage the BBC's brand. We don't want to be overzealous, a lot of the material on YouTube is good promotional content for us, he said. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 12:23 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC on YouTube On 02/03/07, Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Might interest some people here. Wow - awesome! Great to see the BBC providing footage in non-DRM formats! Congratulations! The Gnash project (http://gnash.lulu.com) is about to get flash video playback working, so the obstacle to free software presented by YouTube is about to be over. The Gnash player will be inside embedded devices like the OpenMoko mobile phone, and supporting this project is important right now :-) I hope in the future this grows from short clips, that lead to the DRM-infected iPlayer, into full shows. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Angus McBean
It was called: Capturing Celebrity... Mon 5 Mar, 7:00 pm - 7:30 pm 30mins ...The Photographs of Angus McBean. A look at the career of the Newport-born artist currently being celebrated in a major exhibition at the National Museum of Wales. [S] http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:hEOaftmqsWcJ:www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listi ngs/programme.shtml%3Fday%3Dyesterday%26service_id%3D41534%26filename%3D2007 0305/20070305_1900_41534_4697_30+Angus+McBean+bbchl=enct=clnkcd=3gl=uk http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:hEOaftmqsWcJ:www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/list ings/programme.shtml%3Fday%3Dyesterday%26service_id%3D41534%26filename%3D200 70305/20070305_1900_41534_4697_30+Angus+McBean+bbchl=enct=clnkcd=3gl=uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of hayfielddigitalparish Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:02 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Angus McBean Hi guys would appreciate help How do I find details of a programme on Angus McBean broadcast on BBC 2 at 7 or 7:30pm on the 5th March 07 possibly only shown in Wales ? the BBC site gives 0 finds! Phil
RE: [backstage] Angus McBean
Looks like it was on Wales BBC 2. Could try: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/2w/content/contact.shtml -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Cartwright Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:15 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Angus McBean http://www.google.com/search?q=Angus+McBean+site%3Abbc.co.uk Google some better results than our internal engine, and holds some info in its cache. J _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hayfielddigitalparish Sent: 09 March 2007 11:02 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Angus McBean Hi guys would appreciate help How do I find details of a programme on Angus McBean broadcast on BBC 2 at 7 or 7:30pm on the 5th March 07 possibly only shown in Wales ? the BBC site gives 0 finds! Phil
RE: [backstage] Multicast Trial
Multicast with Zen.co.uk worked sporadically. When it worked, it worked well. When it didn't, it didn't show anything other than a blank video screen. Just curious and apologies for being off topic, but have noticed, post Vista launch, that quite a lot of people seem to be switching from Windows to Max OSX and Linux. Just wondered if this is true here in this tech forum. Wondered what most people are running and if they see themselves moving OS in the future. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Cartwright Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:13 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Multicast Trial I used the multicast streams when Easynet were on an old trial. Worked a treat. Also, I believe the multicast streams were opened up to all ISPs for a few days when the BBC was experiencing high traffic after the 7/7 London bombings, which was useful. J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: 10 April 2007 09:22 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Multicast Trial As far as I understand it, it was more a case of the BBC (and ITV) trialing broadcasting via the multicast infrastructure - moreso than it was a trial of consumers actually watching the content. I was on a ja.net provider for an entire year and not once could I actually watch the multicast content - due to the University's unwillingness to update their own internal network to be multicast-enabled. I got multicast working ONCE, on a neighbour's ISP - but he was paying a LOT for his access, and as a business customer of their he actually worked with the isp to get multicast enabled. My parents are on Zen, and even though that's one of the apparently-supported multicast ISPs for the trial: no luck. I'm on Plus.net at home and whilst they were supposed to be one of the ISPs who was taking part in the trial, it never seemed to be working at Plus.net's end when I looked. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] OS choice (was: Multicast Trial)
I could add quite a few to that anecdotal tally: people who have switched to Macs (Mac Book Pros, especially) and people who say they will switch once Leopard is released. Know a lot of people who last year were planning on switching to Vista - some did and have already gone back to XP or changed to a Mac. One has gone to Linux. Only know one person who has moved to and stuck with Vista. We're in the market for 2 new workstations and 3 laptops and were planning on Vista until all the rumpus broke at Vista's launch. Now undecided, but most likely to go Mac when Leopard is out of its cage. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Cartwright Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 12:37 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] OS choice (was: Multicast Trial) I've recently 'switched' [1] (damn you Apple marketing dept!) from an XP desktop to a Macbook as my main computer. Its been almost flawless (unlike all the Vista problems we keep hearing about), and a bit of revelation after being a complete Windowsite since 3.0. I've met 3 people that have bought Macbooks recently, and know of a few others that have a Apple computer purchase planned. Anecdotal evidence, I know, but it seems to be reflected in the numbers... http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/03/20/strong-mac-sales-ex pected-this-quarter J [1] http://www.jasoncartwright.com/blog/entry/2007/2/so_i_bought_a_macbook -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 April 2007 12:10 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Multicast Trial Multicast with Zen.co.uk worked sporadically. When it worked, it worked well. When it didn't, it didn't show anything other than a blank video screen. Just curious and apologies for being off topic, but have noticed, post Vista launch, that quite a lot of people seem to be switching from Windows to Max OSX and Linux. Just wondered if this is true here in this tech forum. Wondered what most people are running and if they see themselves moving OS in the future. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Cartwright Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:13 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Multicast Trial I used the multicast streams when Easynet were on an old trial. Worked a treat. Also, I believe the multicast streams were opened up to all ISPs for a few days when the BBC was experiencing high traffic after the 7/7 London bombings, which was useful. J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: 10 April 2007 09:22 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Multicast Trial As far as I understand it, it was more a case of the BBC (and ITV) trialing broadcasting via the multicast infrastructure - moreso than it was a trial of consumers actually watching the content. I was on a ja.net provider for an entire year and not once could I actually watch the multicast content - due to the University's unwillingness to update their own internal network to be multicast-enabled. I got multicast working ONCE, on a neighbour's ISP - but he was paying a LOT for his access, and as a business customer of their he actually worked with the isp to get multicast enabled. My parents are on Zen, and even though that's one of the apparently-supported multicast ISPs for the trial: no luck. I'm on Plus.net at home and whilst they were supposed to be one of the ISPs who was taking part in the trial, it never seemed to be working at Plus.net's end when I looked. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] OS choice, assume= ass u me
Seems like a lot of Mac growth in a single month.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 2:04 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] OS choice, assume= ass u me Isn't the first, great mistake that people make with statistics to believe that everyone else does what they do? Assume makes an ass out of u and me... Can I refer people to this message, just posted which shows a 64% increase in Mac usage (to 2.87%), and a 1% drop in Windows usage (to 96.39%)... Real hard evidence, people! Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Cridland Sent: 06 April 2007 20:36 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Browser Stats I'm coming late to this discussion, as always, but if you're interested, here's the information from virginradio.co.uk (sitewide). Visits by operating system in March 2007 (compared with November 2005) Windows: 96.39% (was 97.45%) Macintosh: 2.87% (was 1.75%) Linux: 0.48% (was 0.55%) Unknown: 0.25% (was 0.21%) SunOS: 0.01% (was 0.03%) FreeBSD: 34 visits OS/2: 5 visits OpenBSD 1 visit -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk Northrop Sent: 10 April 2007 12:57 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] OS choice Jason Cartwright wrote: I've recently 'switched' [1] (damn you Apple marketing dept!) from an XP desktop to a Macbook as my main computer. Its been almost flawless (unlike all the Vista problems we keep hearing about), and a bit of revelation after being a complete Windowsite since 3.0. Sorry, but Me too. Almost exactly the same story. On a Mac Mini though, so it's a bit slow! -- From the North, this is Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 09/04/2007 22:59 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 09/04/2007 22:59 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] OS choice, assume= ass u me
I realised the error after sending the message ;-( Still, a significant rise for the Macs and a further indication that the OS ground does appear to be shifting. Would be interesting to know if that is reflected in stats for other companies. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 2:31 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] OS choice, assume= ass u me It would be for one month, but it's actually for sixteen... Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 April 2007 14:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] OS choice, assume= ass u me Seems like a lot of Mac growth in a single month.. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 2:04 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] OS choice, assume= ass u me Isn't the first, great mistake that people make with statistics to believe that everyone else does what they do? Assume makes an ass out of u and me... Can I refer people to this message, just posted which shows a 64% increase in Mac usage (to 2.87%), and a 1% drop in Windows usage (to 96.39%)... Real hard evidence, people! Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Cridland Sent: 06 April 2007 20:36 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Browser Stats I'm coming late to this discussion, as always, but if you're interested, here's the information from virginradio.co.uk (sitewide). Visits by operating system in March 2007 (compared with November 2005) Windows: 96.39% (was 97.45%) Macintosh: 2.87% (was 1.75%) Linux: 0.48% (was 0.55%) Unknown: 0.25% (was 0.21%) SunOS: 0.01% (was 0.03%) FreeBSD: 34 visits OS/2: 5 visits OpenBSD 1 visit -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk Northrop Sent: 10 April 2007 12:57 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] OS choice Jason Cartwright wrote: I've recently 'switched' [1] (damn you Apple marketing dept!) from an XP desktop to a Macbook as my main computer. Its been almost flawless (unlike all the Vista problems we keep hearing about), and a bit of revelation after being a complete Windowsite since 3.0. Sorry, but Me too. Almost exactly the same story. On a Mac Mini though, so it's a bit slow! -- From the North, this is Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 09/04/2007 22:59 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 09/04/2007 22:59 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 09/04/2007 22:59 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.0.0/754 - Release Date: 09/04/2007 22:59 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
Me three ;-)) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Kirk Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:45 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial I just received an e-mail which seemed to confirm I was part of the trial - excerpt: We'll e-mail you your account details in just a few weeks and then you'll have access to hundreds of hours of programmes. :D! On 19/04/07, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It¹ll take a few weeks I would imagine before you¹ll hear much the list is getting blasted at the moment as you¹d expect! I¹ll post up more information as I know it. m On 19/4/07 15:53, Paul Jefferson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you know when we will hear if we are in or not? (Or is the fact that I've not heard mean I'm not in?) Paul (Long Time Lurker) On 19/04/07, James Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Apr 2007, at 14:39, Scot McSweeney-Roberts wrote: James Cox wrote: I hope that if this gets past the various layers of governance and gets budget to become a 'real' project, some effort into hooking up into bittorrent (I'm sure Bram could come up with some trickery to have certified users (ie, license fee payers ;)) only which would permit some kind of higher bandwidth product. I've never really felt comfortable with distributed P2P for content that I've paid for. It's great when bittorrent is used for transfering ubuntu iso's around (as it's members of a community helping others in the same community), it's less great but at least makes some sense when it's used for piracy (as it's still a members of a community helping other members in a community, all be it an illicit one) but when it comes to content that I'm paying somebody to send to me, I don't see why I should waste my upload bandwith for someone else's business model. Even with content from the BBC, I pay the licence fee so why should I pay in bandwidth as well? Fair enough, but i love the fact I can grab an ISO or ... er... certain content very rapidly using the P2P model. Since I pay a flat rate anyhow, and i've got loads of upload bandwidth to use, I'm not that fussed. :) - james - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC4B5, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TS T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) -- Gary Kirk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
The vast majority of users are quite happy to use the content as it's provided, and have no problems doing that. (I ask this politely) On what basis do you say that? I don't know anyone who is happy with DRM. My 70 year-old neighbour refuses to buy DRM material just on the principle that rights shouldn't be managed because the implication of all DRM is that the buyer would be - but for the DRM - a thief ... which is a preposterous way to approach your client base. Any DRM can be undone, so it is just waste of time and effort and money. I think it does alienate a large section of the public. D -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:27 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info One point that gets made repeatedly in these arguments is something along the lines of users are demanding DRM-free content - implying that the whole world is gagging for copyable Doctor Who episodes and back editions of Top Gear. This just isn't the case. The vast majority of users are quite happy to use the content as it's provided, and have no problems doing that. It's a *tiny* minority of people who are demanding DRM-free content, and of those, most of them don't have a practical reason for wanting that content without DRM, they just need to feel that they're arguing the moral high ground in any given situation. They're not intent on becoming the next Brian Eno or Chemical Brothers, they just feel the need to argue the position because they've read about it on Slashdot. Come on - how many of you have ever heard your mum exclaiming Oh, why does my content have to come with DRM??? Cheers, Rich. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
So - how, in your system when all media are free, do you reward creativity? Or do you believe that creativity is not worth monetary reward? Most of what the media produces isnt creative: it is formulaic and componentised in much the same way as any factory that assembles work on a production line. Of course, media production needs to be financed, but it isnt a scarce resource and it does warrant disproportionate returns. If the media was truly creative, it wouldnt struggle with how to make money from its work. It is a confusion on the part of the media folk to think that their work is somehow creative and unique. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Betteridge Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:13 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info On 12/06/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By definition something that can be infinitely replicated is NOT a scarce resource. I'm afraid that's not a tenable argument. You're thinking of the resource as the bits. In fact, the scarce resource is the creativity which made the first copy. So the only question that matters is how do you reward creativity? So - how, in your system when all media are free, do you reward creativity? Or do you believe that creativity is not worth monetary reward? Copyright exists to create a system of artificial scarcity, on the principle that creativity deserves reward as it's a major positive activity for society as a whole. Take away that system of artificial scarcity, and you'd better have a replacement that can do the job just as well. So please Andy- what's your replacement? Bare in mind that unless your replacement can substitute for the economic activity supported by copyright, you are going to reduce economic activity in general and thus make the world (literally) poorer.
RE: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
Here we go again with the there are plenty of other ways to make money / loads of other business models argument. Just for the sake of accuracy ... I didn't actually say either of the above. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:19 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info If the media was truly creative, it wouldn't struggle with how to make money from its work. It is a confusion on the part of the media folk to think that their work is somehow creative and unique. Here we go again with the there are plenty of other ways to make money / loads of other business models argument. No-one yet has mentioned one (and that includes that MP3 site that Dave C mentioned earlier - there's a good reason they can be pretty sure no-one's going to illegally share their music. Not with people they like anyway. Cheers, Rich. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
Hey Rich ++ Oh. Right. Sorry. wouldn't struggle with how to make money from its work. I'm sure there's a distinction between that and would be able to come up with a different business model There is a distinction because I'm not saying that people would be able to come up with a different business model. I'm saying that the struggle to make money shows a lack of creative thinking. Maybe no one can come up with a way to make money (other than using DRM as a cosh) - though I think that's unlikely. The problem probably comes in media people expecting a disproportionate return on what they do. They think they're producing something scarce (but in truth everyone has some creative talent) but all they are producing is more of a long line of similar things that have gone before. Look at the BBC: at the moment it is running its pictures in Britain thing. http://www.bbc.co.uk/britain/ This has a lot of creative content from people all over the country... people who aren't getting paid for their creativity. A lot of what is being produced is as good/interesting as anything you see from the BBC itself or photography professionals. The vast majority of media content is just normal stuff: someone singing, someone playing music, someone acting, etc - it doesn't take much skill and it certainly is not a scare and valuable resource. My initial response was to the poster who said that creativity is scarce and therefore valuable My reply was to say it isn't scarce and therefore not valuable. There may be a few exceptions of true creativity ... but they are few and far between. Calvin Coolidge got it right in his shot across the bows to people who think they are somehow unique or special: Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not - the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race. Not arguing with you, but I wasn't saying there is a different business model out there. I was just pointing out that media creativity isn't a scarce/valuable resource ... if the original poster is claiming creative scarcity for the foundation of their argument, then their argument is sunk. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:41 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info Oh. Right. Sorry. wouldn't struggle with how to make money from its work. I'm sure there's a distinction between that and would be able to come up with a different business model Cheers, Rich. Here we go again with the there are plenty of other ways to make money / loads of other business models argument. Just for the sake of accuracy ... I didn't actually say either of the above. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:19 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info If the media was truly creative, it wouldn't struggle with how to make money from its work. It is a confusion on the part of the media folk to think that their work is somehow creative and unique. Here we go again with the there are plenty of other ways to make money / loads of other business models argument. No-one yet has mentioned one (and that includes that MP3 site that Dave C mentioned earlier - there's a good reason they can be pretty sure no-one's going to illegally share their music. Not with people they like anyway. Cheers, Rich. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next?
That's just a personal preference amongst some people - it isn't wrong. According to Michael Swan from Oxford University Press, Practical English Usage: British English: different from / different to American English: different from / different than -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard Lockwood Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 3:32 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] DRM does not work... what next? On 6/15/07, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 15/06/07, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your name and logo's would still be covered by Trademark and similar protections. Misrepresenting the source of a good is surely illegal isn't it? Oh - so visual intellectual property is fine, but recorded isn't? Trademark law is totally different to copyright law and totally different again to patent law. Please don't confuse them under the bogus umbrella term 'intellectual property' - its phrased intentionally to misdirect and confuse the way we consider these issues. But in Davetopia, logos can be copied electronically, and hence freely shared (as they have no intrinsic value), and then printed on t-shirts. Rich. PS I know this isn't a grammar list, but it's a personal bugbear of mine... It's different from, not different to. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Use of Tinyurl in Emails
I agree with you - just got the same message and had the same thought. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Adam Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 3:48 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Use of Tinyurl in Emails Hi, I've just received an email from the BBC Archive project and noticed that all the email links are using Tinyurl. Now i would argue that the BBC shouldn't be using this type of service in emails, mainly as it contradicts the advice i give friends regarding following URLs in emails that do not appear associated with the sender (for example only follow links to bbc.co.uk in emails from the beeb) Tinyurl is a great service and i can understand why it is used, but i feel that using this type of service in a wider audience is a bad idea. What does everyone else think. Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC Podcasts Including Music
By ditching DRM, sales increase and copyright holders make more money anyway: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/macuser/news/140652/uk-retailers-called-for-ditching- of-drm.html independent labels are outselling restricted downloads by four-to-one. Better to have a larger slice of the cake than to have a small slice or no slice at all. Maybe copyright holders need to lower their income expectations. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Cowlishaw Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:35 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC Podcasts Including Music On 22 Nov 2007, at 10:52, Sean DALY wrote: * How about outright payment for perpetual rights? Way too expensive, especially worldwide. Need this necessarily be the case though? considering that broadcast (and arts / media / entertainment sector in general) is one of the most over-subscribed professions in this country, and a great deal of talented people working in the broadcast industry are paid shockingly low wages by their (rights holder) employers, i'd be willing to bet that there are a great many talented programme-makers who would be willing to sell their content outright for a not-outrageous sum. Granted, Endemol or News Corp probably won't be among them, but does this have to be a problem? Cheers, Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Muddy Boots on Backstage
Journalists in terms of national newspapers and national broadcasters aren't needed in modern society. We could easily and happily do without them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Deirdre Harvey Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:48 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Muddy Boots on Backstage _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vijay chopra It was only one idea, I'm sure that there are others. who knows, one of them might even including resurrecting the noble art of journalism as a public service rather than to make money. So can you give us any indication of when the technologists will have completed the prototype of the journalist that doesn't need food or shelter? Strange definition of elitism - one I have never heard before - if the result of what you want really meant that everyone got the best of everything then I would support it - but if all that happens is a small group of people like yourselves benefit and everybody else loses out then we will be no further forward Not the best of everything, but the best of anything, i.e. the cream of the crop, the best of the best etc. That's the result I want, the best of everything gives you mediocrity. You're not one of those people who moans about Oxford and Cambridge being elitist are you? That's the whole point! Elite means best of the best, and we only want the best of the best going there. In the same way I only want the best of the best on my PC. That means I have to be elitist. But you don't want the best of journalism? Or you think you can get the best journalists by telling them to work for free? Should anyone (other than, presumably, the technologists) be paid for their work? Why should people who do important jobs in the public interest not get paid? My father has worked very hard his entire life as a teacher in an inner city school. He thinks his job matters and takes his work very seriously but he wouldn't have done it if they hadn't paid him. You know, what with kids to support etc. If you think journalism isn't important to society then make that argument. If you think it is, then why blithely assume that other people should do that important work for nothing?
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices and it tries to thrust the 'don't copy videos' advert on to you. Why should any company have the right to stop you using your own DVD controls and force you to watch the messages it demands that you watch. It 'steals' your electricity and screen time to display its messages and if you tot up all the hours people waste waiting to have control over their DVDs then you realise that it wastes a lot of energy and is anything but green. Wonder why this imposition hasn't been challenged in the courts. It is a small but very annoying thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Smith (Irascian Ltd) Sent: 19 February 2008 14:17 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray Yup. Presumably, in this ridiculous Must buy into the latest hype even if the technology really isn't up to the job and it's totally impractical world we live in people will happily wait several hours after deciding they want to watch a movie for their movie to download instead of just inserting that pre-2K bit of plastic that starts up immediately. Michael Bay famously declared that HD-DVD was introduced by Microsoft as a deliberate spoiler to Blu-Ray to ensure failure of that format and eventual success of the download high def format they were really after. Clearly the ravings of a lunatic who hasn't enjoyed the picture quality of a broadcast on a stuttering iPlayer on an 8MB broadband connection! Ian (happy to be fighting over a comb if the alternative is either watching postage stamp sized movies on a phone or enjoying artefacting and poor quality that is the Sky HD service). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 19 February 2008 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On 19/02/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Toshiba drops out of HD DVD war - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252172.stm What does everyone think? I thought they would keep this going for longer. Bald men fighting over a comb. Now one one them can scrape their scalp to their heart's content. Putting data onto bits of plastic is so pre-2K... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Is that right? These days doesn't everyone store their still pics digitally? Store their video camera clips digitally? Store their music digitally? I think the only thing that gets in the way is DRM. Downloading a movie/song often comes with DRM restricting usage to set players. With a CD/DVD you have more flexibility ... but that's the only thing I can think of. I buy virtually all my music as CDs, but then rip them to play them how I want to play them. I don't tie them to one media platform. But I don't really keep the physical format other than as a back-up. If I can buy non-drm/tied music/films, I will. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 20 February 2008 15:57 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know guys, it may have been said multiple times but the only winner in this battle must be the online services. However I'm still left wondering when the general public will get their head around non-physical media. People seem to like the look and feel of physical media like CDs, Vinyl, DVDs. Cheers Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [x] private; [] ask first; [] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: +44 (0)2080083965 mob: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Woodhouse Sent: 20 February 2008 13:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray On Tue, 2008-02-19 at 15:26 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I /heart/ about the pre-2K bit of plastic is the way it takes control over your TV/DVD and insists that you watch the copyright notices Sounds like you need to get yourself a better DVD player. -- dwmw2 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray
Could be good marketing if they can make it cost effective. How many people bought HD-DVD anyway... presumably not /that/ many or the format wouldn't have gone belly up. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 22 February 2008 11:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD / Blu Ray I don't know if it would make good business sense, but wouldn't it be good if Sony came in right now and said 'hey all you HD-DVD deck buyers - come swap it for a blu-ray deck for free/subsidised price'. Could even swap it for a PS3, increasing game sales while they were at it. Don't think the people that bought a shiny new deck to sit under their TV would want a PS3 instead though. On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 22 February 2008 08:03:43 Brian Butterworth wrote: Is the BBC Shop going to swap defunt HD-DVD for BR versions? Why would they (or any shop) do that? It'd perhaps be a nice gesture, but hardly a way to run a business - I'd be really surprised if (for example) WH Smith offered to do that. I don't seem to recall that ever happening with the wreckage from any other technology war... Mind you, this really is the wrong place to ask that question - why don't you mail them and ask? (they are a commercial entity run seperately from the rest of the BBC after all) Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds
I agree with Tim Dobson and welcome getting views that make me think from all parts of the thought spectrum. Consider may of posts I read to be thought provoking. If other people feel they are trolled by Dave's views, then that's their own feelings - but I welcome his comments and find the vilification of him rather feeble and self-defeating. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 29 February 2008 12:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Adobe fuses on and offline worlds On 26/02/2008, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's never bothered Dave before. Actually of all the free software advocates, Dave is certainly the least confrontational, and most friendly. *You* may disagree with his views, however your actions demonstrate your readiness to listen to other opinions and attitudes. Dave, and for that matter many people on bbc-backstage, are quite happy to point out where they disagree with your ideas one minute, but readily agree on another issue. If you don't inhabit the fantasy world that is Davetopia, you must be related to the anti-Christ. He'll a one issue troll, who'll quite happily try insult anyone who disagrees with his zealot tendencies. I don't think Dave is the monster you make him out to be. (disclaimer: I'm a Free Software supporter) -- www.dobo.urandom.co.uk If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_727/newsid_7271000/7271098.stm?b w=bbmp=wmnews=1bbcws=1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_727/newsid_7271000/7271098.stm? bw=bbmp=wmnews=1bbcws=1 With ideas like this being touted by the BBC for people to get content on different devices SANS usage or time restrictions, it seems bizarre that another part of the BBC produces iPlayer which is time limited and device controlled.
RE: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM
But how is the BBC protecting rights holders when it has online video instructions telling you how to record progs without any DRM protection. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 March 2008 15:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Undermining iPlayer DRM Quoting Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It is bizarre that the BBC won't negotiate with 3rd party rights holders to secure non-DRM internet distribution. I doubt that the BBC won't. It is possible to negotiate such a deal (see Where Are The Joneses). But 3rd party rightsholders usually think that it is not in their interests to do so, and so they don't. - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Maybe the BBC is only paying lip-service to the notion of DRM knowing that anything it puts in place can and will be broken. Maybe everyone should just keep quiet and play along with this DRM charade? Can't help but feel that the DRM supporters are the luddites of the 21st century - people who mean well, but who are trying to stop something over which they can have little control, rather than taking the opportunity to embrace new technology and finding ways to make it really work for them. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Phil Wilson Sent: 13 March 2008 14:05 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? OK, here's my guess: I'm reasonably sure this has in fact now been hacked, but with the BBC most likely facing a cat and mouse game with hackers intent on circumventing copy protection. is it worth our exposing how it's done? Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Wrong - the door is open with a welcome sign because all the progs are broadcast first of all on TV without DRM. Adding DRM later on is just a meaningless waste of money. If people want to get content online, they can and they will. iTV will probably make it even easier if it records live TV as suggested here: http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/16677/ Adding DRM is bolting the stable door long after the horse has bolted and gone frolicking. Save the money wasted on DRM and spend it on finding other ways to make money out of content. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Leitch Sent: 13 March 2008 16:46 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? On 13 Mar 2008, at 16:03, Thomas Leitch wrote: You can force your way into my house should you really want to, but that doesn't mean my front door is broken. That's a flawed analogy. In this case, your front door is simply not locked. Opening the door requires no force whatsoever. (And if I happen to come in and take all your stuff, good luck on getting your insurance company to pay out.) Wrong. It is locked. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
I'm happy to take the BBC's money and produce content for it without any DRM clause. The BBC can find other suppliers. It doesn't have to stick with its current suppliers/friends/former employees-now-turned-private-production-companies. Break up the cartel and get some new life and new thinking into broadcasting. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 March 2008 17:00 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? Quoting Ian Partridge [EMAIL PROTECTED]: One thing I've always found unconvincing is the way the BBC bleats but the production companies won't let us distribute the content DRM-free!. The BBC has major clout - it could say from now on, all production contracts we sign HAVE to allow DRM-free redistribution. It could refuse to pay megabucks for that. Given the piss-poor state that ITV is in at the moment, what would the rights-holders do? Take their bat and ball and go where exactly? The rights-holders need the BBC just as much as the BBC needs them - if not more. The BBC *has* to get a certain percentage of its output from third-party production houses. They have the BBC over a barrel, and it wouldn't be wise of the BBC to upset them by doing anything like pointing out that DRM doesn't work. This needs reforming... - Rob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
On so many levels, that's incredibly bizarre and effete. Hello. I'm a BBC senior manager; but posting personally as a fan of Backstage. It puts us (those that care about Backstage) in a really difficult position if it's used to share information on ways to get around content-restrictions on a BBC service. I don't want to see the end of the Backstage unmoderated mailing list. Posting this type of information threatens its future. Please don't. Anywhere else. Just not here. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Indicative of BBC /management/. Erm. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dom Ramsey Sent: 14 March 2008 12:50 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over? On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:13, James Cridland wrote: I don't want to see the end of the Backstage unmoderated mailing list. Posting this type of information threatens its future. Posting this kind of information is what Backstage is *and should be* all about. Nobody here is advocating copyright violation. All we want to do is watch the content we've paid for on the devices we already own. I can't for the life of me work out why the BBC would release a version of the iPlayer that *deliberately* only works on one company devices. And why any senior manager at the BBC would think that's acceptable. Dom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] [Backstage] New BBC News site
The double mastheads (black then red) take up too much space and push the main chunk of the site too far down the page. Apart from that, a very nice design. Centred and wider.. at last. /applause/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Woods Sent: 31 March 2008 15:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] [Backstage] New BBC News site Me too.. I like the wider pages, good considering the increasing amount of widescreen users (msyelf included). However, the black up top is too large and an unnecessary waste of screen real estate. The BBC logo isn't even aligned with the BBC News logo, so it all looks off-kilter. Also, a slight, subtle columnisation would work nicely - just a slightly darker background colour for the see also column on the far right of the screen would be nice. Some aspects like the darker bgcolor for image captions is gone, which is a shame as it helped separate the main body text from the captions. Not everything in the old design needed getting rid of... Switchable stylesheets would be the win! _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 31 March 2008 15:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] [Backstage] New BBC News site Today! http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/03/refreshing_changes.html 300 comments already! On 31/03/2008, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did this go live?! The black bar at the top will have to grow on me... are there any plans to do anything else with that, other than a search box? ./Matt - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
RE: [backstage] DAB rollout...
Yep, am waiting for freesat to launch as there is no digi signal on our transmitter until 2012. Though freesat wont give me radio reception ;-( -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 09 April 2008 07:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] DAB rollout... On 09/04/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bit of luck you didn't move to where I live There is not digital anything here (not TV or DAB). It's 99.9% likely that there is Freesat though! http://www.freesat.co.uk/home.php And it's always worth a try... http://www.ukfree.tv/transmitters.php -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]On Behalf Of Rupert Watson Sent: 09 April 2008 05:35 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] DAB rollout... I bought a Sony XDRS50B DAB radio last month so my wife could listen to BBC London despite moving to Watford. As a result she loves DAB and has converted a number of her friends. For her it wasn't about quality; it was about convenience. On 09/04/2008 03:47, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I'd want to switch to DAB why, exactly? Rupert Watson www.root6.com http://www.root6.com +44 7787 554 801 ROOT 6 LIMITED Registered in the UK at 4 WARDOUR MEWS, LONDON W1F 8AJ Company No. 03433253 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk http://backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
RE: [backstage] BBC tells ISPs to get stuffed
I think the ISPs have a point ... the ADSL network is (currently) like a collection of country roads (narrow and fairly slow) which the BBC is trying to drive it's supersize juggernauts down. Think the ISPs should use some form of traffic shaping for iPlayer traffic and that the BBC and other such companies should fess up some of the costs involved in improving the network if they want to use the net to push their weighty products. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Sent: 10 April 2008 13:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] BBC tells ISPs to get stuffed On Thursday 10 April 2008 12:26:57 Andy wrote: It's only safe to cache data when you know it is cacheable. I agree with many of the sentiments you raise, but a key thing to remember is that many caches will not cache objects over a certain size. Lots of heuristics around caching have been worked on over the years, but most of them generally work with objects within certain general parameters. (I worked in the caching industry on scaling delivery both on content sending and content recieving ends for several years, and could really go on about this, but I won't :-) Sure you could whitelist specific sites, but also caching in the ISP doesn't deal with the problem people have been raising - as previously mentioned in this thread: On 09/04/2008, David McBride [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ISPs who are anticipating financial hardship are more concerned with the cost of bandwidth between their network and home ADSL users, and _not_ between their network and the outside world. And whilst setting the content to be cacheable is a nice idea, I doubt that ISPs are likely to want to maintain whitelists or to increase their maximum object size that high. But then its this sort of niche that companies like akamai have been targetting for years now. I can see companies liking the idea, but I'm not convinced companies really want their staff watching doctor who or similar at work... If the BBC wanted to build out their own CDN system (debateable/no idea), then personally I'd think a system based around L5 multicast ideas combined with content caches at the edge - like scattercast - is probably one of the best approaches. But then I've been saying that for years now since I've seen that work well in the past ... :) That said, it still doesn't help with the problem David mentions above. Regards, Michael. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Question.. is denuding News 24 of its digits a brilliant idea?
Saying BBC News doesn't make much sense either as there are lots of BBC News programme transmissions other than News 24 (notwithstanding the fact that so many of the transmissions have more or less the same content, so it doesn't really matter where you've seen it). BBC 24 would (IMO) have been a better bit of branding ... especially as the channel covers more than just raw news stuff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ryan Morrison Sent: 15 April 2008 14:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Question.. is denuding News 24 of its digits a brilliant idea? Without wanting to drag an off topic discussion on any more than is necessary - there is a simple explanation. At the moment when refering to BBC News 24 most people just say News 24 so did you see that interview on News 24 last night I know I've done it. It's all about branding and brand awareness - by changing the name to BBC News people have to use the BBC as just saying News Channel doesn't make much sense. So the awareness of it as a BBC brand thus increases. Anyway - thanks. Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: try saying it's not technical when you're trying to get the /programmes news 24 urls right ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Matthew Cashmore Sent: Tue 4/15/2008 2:37 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Question.. is denuding News 24 of its digits a brilliant idea? Brian - don't think this is the list to get feedback on the image shift of News 24 - this is after all the developer list for the BBC, not a general BBC Discussion list ;-) I'd suggest that you move this to a more relevant list (don't ask I don't know one) or contact News 24 directly via the various paes with 'contact us' links on and I'm sure someone will get back to you. m ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC4A5, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TS T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Brian Butterworth Sent: Tue 15/04/2008 13:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Question.. is denuding News 24 of its digits a brilliant idea? Just a question. On Monday BBC World is going to become BBC World News. This is an excellent idea. In the global market an news channel really needs to the word News in it. Full marks for this, and it's 100% better than BBC World Service Television, which was a laudable but long name without a decent acronym (BBCWSTV). But BBC News 24 is going to get rid of the 24, which has been in the name since Sunday 9th November 1997. Ten years of a channel associated with the number 24. Not only is this 42 backwards... but it has been the mainstay of the channel identity, even back in the Quantel flags and drum days. http://www2.tv-ark.org.uk/news/bbcnews24/index.html I know that you, dearest Auntie, have been thinking about this for a year and a half... but, I can't find anyone who thinks it is a good idea - because how do you mention the channel without putting the world channel on the end? People are going to say on the BBC News channel or on The BBC News Channel right now and so on. Not only that, but the 24 has been copied in France (France 24) and Italy (RAI News 24) and lots of other places. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Now, Sky just made a big error with their silly bouncing captions[1].. can someone explain how a channel that has wiped the floor with Sky News should be denuded of it's perfectly sensible numeric appendage? Hoping for a rational explanation... Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051360 PS: I have my fingers crossed that those titles with the concave satellite dishes that do not reflect the signal won't be there anymore. It's so embarrassing [2] PPS: I also have my other fingers crossed for the new channel to have stereo sound. PPPS: And a HD version. :-D --- [1] http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/mediamonkey/2008/04/monkeys_diary_from_the_media gu_19.html *Bouncing into oblivion* Monkey's number of the day: three. The number of days (approximately) that *Sky News*'s bouncing captions survived the news channel's latest relaunch before being summarily dropped [2] But I got an apoology from Panorama. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive:
RE: [backstage] Friday humour
For Matts collection: I was walking past a building the other day, and all the people were shouting, 13...1313...13. The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a little gap in the planks and looked through to see what was going on. Someone poked me in the eye with a stick and then they all started shouting. 14...14...1414. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: 06 June 2008 08:43 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Friday humour Maybe time for some Friday humour, so I will begin: What is a shitzu? (you all reply: It's a dog!) Nah, it's a zoo with no animals in it HAHAHA Feel free to add to (or mute) this thread to make Fridays go a little faster. ./Matt
[backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] Re: Is it OK for BT Vision to charge £3 per month for the iPlayer?
If BT can, why can’t you or anyone else? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 09 June 2008 15:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RE: [backstage] Re: Is it OK for BT Vision to charge £3 per month for the iPlayer? It turns out it isn't the iPlayer but the higher quality DVB-T recording that BT offer as part of their package. Although as they have no claim to copyright over them, it a bit hard to understand how they can charge extra for them, for example I couldn't record BBC one off-air, make a +1 of it and then transmit it via satellite and charge a fee for it. Could I? Or could I? 2008/6/9 Darren Stephens [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : I would suspect so, as they would likely claim that it is like any number of satellite channels bundled on sky, provided at zero cost, but only available as part of a package which includes other chargeable services. Marketing drones, don't you just love them… From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 1:09 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Re: Is it OK for BT Vision to charge £3 per month for the iPlayer? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7439652.stm 2008/6/5 Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : According to http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3580-catch-up-tv-on-bt-vision-no-longer-f ree.html BT Vision now has a TV Replay Pack that costs £3 per month and covers the ... BBC iPlayer service. Is it OK for BT to charge for access to the free iPlayer? --- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 * To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html * -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it be told to stay on top of other windows both features that I for one use a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gavin Pearce Sent: 13 June 2008 09:44 To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk' Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! Not had a huge experience of Linux GUIs have to admit, mainly a command line guy, though randomly I am putting Ubuntu on me old Laptop tonight (doesn't that sound like a cool Friday evening out!), so shall give it a whirl and let you know.;-) Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0) 1344 427138 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com/ TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited. Registered in England, company number 2079459. -Original Message- From: Andrew Bowden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 June 2008 09:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! You need the Linux version of Real Player. Much nicer and no nagging! Built on the open source Helix Player. Of course you would also need to change your operating system ;) _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gavin Pearce Sent: 13 June 2008 09:26 To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk' Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! I agree with Brian, Real-player is a lot less 'free' in the terms you're thinking than Flash is. You don't get upgrade to plus announcements every five minutes for starters in Flash! However also agree with Christopher, Flash isn't anywhere near as supported on other platforms as Adobe like to make out. Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0) 1344 427138 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com/ TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited. Registered in England, company number 2079459. -Original Message- From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 June 2008 07:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! 2008/6/13 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote: 2008/6/12 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote: 2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash? Er, free software ones. http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/ has Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X So? They still aren't free. They don't cost anything at all to the consumer. That's free is the prtacicable sense. RealPlayer is, if you mean free-software, is much less free. Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't it? -- Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ . This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ . This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ . This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ .
RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
Anything is possible, of course, but people want plain simple easy things that work the way they expect them to work. Flash embedded BBC content isnt really user friendly I think. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gavin Pearce Sent: 13 June 2008 11:52 To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk' Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! It can be done in Windows, not by standard you have a point, but with other applications. Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0) 1344 427138 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com/ TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited. Registered in England, company number 2079459. -Original Message- From: Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 June 2008 11:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one use a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well. !--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]-- I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to play with creating my own AIR application yet. Adam This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ . This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ .
RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
I’d have to disagree. Not if it can’t easily be reduced to a controllable item on the task bar, and not if it can’t be told to stay conveniently on top of other windows. Having to have IE/FF open (with their physical screen size) to watch something in flash is just a nuisance especially if you can’t force them to stay on top of other windows. Also, it is very easy to accidentally close IE/FF and lose a flash prog, whereas WMP and RP are much easier to set and forget as you are usually only using them for one thing at one time, whereas web browsers are used for multiple things making it easy to forget what is or isn’t being used at any one time. If I follow any BBC content I always use standalone WMP or RP because I have got fed up of closing FF and losing embedded players. My bad, but I’m pretty sure other people have the same experience. Cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Tweed Sent: 13 June 2008 14:11 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! Surely the point is that flash embedded content is a plain, simple, easy thing that works. That makes it more user friendly than before. Cheers Jonathan On 13 Jun 2008, at 12:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anything is possible, of course, but people want plain simple easy things that work the way they expect them to work. Flash embedded BBC content isn’t really user friendly… I think. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gavin Pearce Sent: 13 June 2008 11:52 To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk mailto:'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk ' Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! It can be done in Windows, not by standard you have a point, but with other applications. Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0) 1344 427138 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com/ TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited. Registered in England, company number 2079459. -Original Message- From: Adam [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 June 2008 11:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one use a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well. !--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]-- I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to play with creating my own AIR application yet. Adam This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ . This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel http://www.viatel.com/ .
RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
I'd second that ... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Hannen Sent: 13 June 2008 15:46 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady! An option for the iplayer to pop-out to an always on top widow, would be lovely actually - I would't want it all the time, but for people who watch whilst using their computer, it would be much easier than re-opening the same tab in a new window, then resizing and scrolling it around until it looked right. On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one use a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well. Or, if you like consolidation, just install Media Player Classic. (via RealAlternative if you want out-of-the-box RMV/RA support :) I use MPC and WMP, sometimes WMP just manages to decode less intensively but usually it's just MPC combined with a recent ffdshow-tryout for my day to day media playback. Far outstrips VLC's performance. To be honest, I don't know why the Beeb didn't ever recommend RealAlternative for playing back Real streams! It's pretty idiot-proof and you get none of the nags. :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] BBC.co.uk not working
BBC.co.uk not working?
RE: [backstage] Is news.bbc.co.uk broken?
ditto -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Libby Miller Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:22 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: Libby Miller Subject: Re: [backstage] Is news.bbc.co.uk broken? On 26 Nov 2008, at 09:12, Dominic Burns wrote: It looks like the site has either been hacked or is in some sort of strange loop - the pages seem to be replicating within themselves? Is anyone else experiencing this? I just got it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicecupoftea/3061064988/ but it seems ok now. Libby - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed?
Anyone know why the Book At Bedtime (Radio 4) feed in iPlayer for this week's A Christmas Carol is missing? Monday's episode is available, but not Tuesday's or Wednesday's. Thanks
RE: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed?
Many thanks I was going from here http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/book_bedtime.shtml sans luck. Can get it from the link you suggested. Much appreciated. Festive wishes ;-) -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Smethurst Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:04 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed? Looks to be there to me. Just click on the show 2 more link and you'll see them [Checked the rss and there's 3 episodes there too] also available here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fyzyb as i'm contractually obliged to say ;-) -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of zen16...@zen.co.uk Sent: Thu 12/18/2008 9:53 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed? Anyone know why the Book At Bedtime (Radio 4) feed in iPlayer for this week's A Christmas Carol is missing? Monday's episode is available, but not Tuesday's or Wednesday's. Thanks - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed?
Here we are exchanging festive wishes and we haven't even got to the last redeeming episode yet ... we're still meant to be going bah! humbug! and chasing carollers with rulers. ;-) -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Smethurst Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:26 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: Rija Menage; David Cooper Subject: RE: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed? you're right - even tho tuesday's episode is available on iplayer and /programmes it's not working from the radio4 site looks like there's a fault with a component called the radio bridge - this does the mapping from legacy urls (bookat_tue) to iplayer urls (the opaque id used in iplayer and /programmes called a pid) thanks for spotting and festive wishes back :) cc-ing people who'll know better how to fix -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of zen16...@zen.co.uk Sent: Thu 12/18/2008 10:18 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed? Many thanks I was going from here http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/book_bedtime.shtml sans luck. Can get it from the link you suggested. Much appreciated. Festive wishes ;-) -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Smethurst Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 10:04 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed? Looks to be there to me. Just click on the show 2 more link and you'll see them [Checked the rss and there's 3 episodes there too] also available here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fyzyb as i'm contractually obliged to say ;-) -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of zen16...@zen.co.uk Sent: Thu 12/18/2008 9:53 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] IPlayer Radio 4 BAB Feed? Anyone know why the Book At Bedtime (Radio 4) feed in iPlayer for this week's A Christmas Carol is missing? Monday's episode is available, but not Tuesday's or Wednesday's. Thanks - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband
Totally OT and self indulgent (APOLOGIES), but wondered if anyone knows from experience of a mobile broadband product (PAYG) that works in Falmouth, Cornwall. Needs to work on a Mac - MBP. Thanks
RE: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband
Thanks for all the replies from different people. Yep, my feelings exactly - it is just a modem so it should work. I know areas (e.g. right outside the Vodafone shop in Falmouth - where they have a booster aerial) where the Vodafone will work on Windows, so I think I'll go that route and give it a try by running Windows from Boot Camp. It is only for a few days backup usage, so hopefully I can get it to work. Cheers -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:56 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband When these people say 'doesn't work with Mac/Linux', they mean that the auto-install control software on the dongle doesn't work there. My 3 (Huawei) dongle, for example, works better under Linux than it does under Windows - but you have to mangle the settings yourself (trivial under Ubuntu) and you don't get 3's fancy client. Bonus! Dunno about Mac, though, but almost certainly the same. It's just a modem, after all. Peter 2009/1/26 zen16...@zen.co.uk zen16...@zen.co.uk: Many thanks, Fergus Vodafone say their PAYG dongle doesn't work on Macs: This product is not Mac compatible (from their website - and confirmed by the Vodafone store). T-Mobile dongles are Mac happy, but have no coverage at all in Falmouth apparently. 3 are Mac happy, but I'm told the service is patchy at best ... was hoping that someone with some local knowledge might have some experience they could share. I can run XP on the Mac via boot camp or VMWare fusion, but the Vodafone shop say the dongle still won't work with Mac hardware even if I have booted into Windows . this seems strange to me ... would have thought a usb dongle would work with Windows drivers irrespective of being on top of Mac hardware ... wondered, as well, if anybody has a Vodafone dongle and is using it under boot camp/fusion on a Mac. TIA On 25 Jan 2009, at 19:56, Fearghas McKay wrote: On 25 Jan 2009, at 17:43, zen16...@zen.co.uk zen16...@zen.co.uk wrote: Needs to work on a Mac MBP. All of the USB dongles should work with a Mac, but you will probably need local knowledge to identify which networks have usable coverage down there. They should all have maps that show network availability. The T-Mobile PAYG lasts 90 days now apparently and the Three one might do - but that may just be you have 90 days to use the voucher and it then lasts for 30 days, which was the scenario. Both of them should sell you a dongle for ~£40 if you shop around. HTH f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Peter Bowyer Email: pe...@bowyer.org Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband
VERY useful thanks From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:16 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband You can find the mast and services information here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/sitefinder/ 2009/1/26 zen16...@zen.co.uk Thanks for all the replies from different people. Yep, my feelings exactly - it is just a modem so it should work. I know areas (e.g. right outside the Vodafone shop in Falmouth - where they have a booster aerial) where the Vodafone will work on Windows, so I think I'll go that route and give it a try by running Windows from Boot Camp. It is only for a few days backup usage, so hopefully I can get it to work. Cheers -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 9:56 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband When these people say 'doesn't work with Mac/Linux', they mean that the auto-install control software on the dongle doesn't work there. My 3 (Huawei) dongle, for example, works better under Linux than it does under Windows - but you have to mangle the settings yourself (trivial under Ubuntu) and you don't get 3's fancy client. Bonus! Dunno about Mac, though, but almost certainly the same. It's just a modem, after all. Peter 2009/1/26 zen16...@zen.co.uk zen16...@zen.co.uk: Many thanks, Fergus Vodafone say their PAYG dongle doesn't work on Macs: This product is not Mac compatible (from their website - and confirmed by the Vodafone store). T-Mobile dongles are Mac happy, but have no coverage at all in Falmouth apparently. 3 are Mac happy, but I'm told the service is patchy at best ... was hoping that someone with some local knowledge might have some experience they could share. I can run XP on the Mac via boot camp or VMWare fusion, but the Vodafone shop say the dongle still won't work with Mac hardware even if I have booted into Windows . this seems strange to me ... would have thought a usb dongle would work with Windows drivers irrespective of being on top of Mac hardware ... wondered, as well, if anybody has a Vodafone dongle and is using it under boot camp/fusion on a Mac. TIA On 25 Jan 2009, at 19:56, Fearghas McKay wrote: On 25 Jan 2009, at 17:43, zen16...@zen.co.uk zen16...@zen.co.uk wrote: Needs to work on a Mac MBP. All of the USB dongles should work with a Mac, but you will probably need local knowledge to identify which networks have usable coverage down there. They should all have maps that show network availability. The T-Mobile PAYG lasts 90 days now apparently and the Three one might do - but that may just be you have 90 days to use the voucher and it then lasts for 30 days, which was the scenario. Both of them should sell you a dongle for ~£40 if you shop around. HTH f - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Peter Bowyer Email: pe...@bowyer.org Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband
Muchas gracias, amigo From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of jugjogee Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:52 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] OT - Mobile Broadband I have an E172 which worked with a Mac (powerpc) and now works with Linplus. The vodafone fora are much more helpful in that respect. http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showforum=53 I hope that is of help. 2009/1/25 zen16...@zen.co.uk Totally OT and self indulgent (APOLOGIES), but wondered if anyone knows from experience of a mobile broadband product (PAYG) that works in Falmouth, Cornwall. Needs to work on a Mac - MBP. Thanks
