Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
Fingers crossed they are :D Can't wait to see the first hacks for freesat receivers! Yeh! If they have a little power left over in them after the decoding takes place, a nice little hack would be online radio, like shoutcast. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
All the boxes have ethernet ports, and my colleagues at BBC Research and Innovation have done some nice proof-of-concept trials of MHEG applications picking up text content distributed via the internet - for example, sourcing news stories off bbc.co.uk/news, putting twitter updates on screen and doing flickr photo searches, and displaying the results (for some reason, Cow was a favourite search of theirs!) Unfortunately this was all done with what we term reference recievers - basically Linux based PCs which pretend to be set top boxes. The actual software in the Freesat set top boxes to handle text stuff is unlikely to be fully functional yet - and streaming of video is a bit away away! It's all feasible long term though. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 06 May 2008 14:10 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer I've just been to the Freesat launch event... http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 A couple of interesting points for backstagers: 1. Mark Thompson said that the BBC was committed to BBC services being open on all platforms; 2. He also said the iPlayer would be on Freesat as all Freesat boxes (and idTVs) have Ethernet ports. 3. He said that Freesat was an 'open platform' for on-demand content. Result, eh? Brian Butterworth
Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
Andrew, There was a demo of a system using MHEG5 and the Creative Archive that we were shown at the MGEIT(un)F last year. Shouldn't be a problem to do a Flash video player now the format has been 'opened'. My first app for that system would be a Podcast player... I've got a Humax Foxsat-HD, and very nice it is too. There was a fSfS box on the TV before, it is like going from a ZX Spectrum to an XBox 360... 2008/5/8 Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED]: All the boxes have ethernet ports, and my colleagues at BBC Research and Innovation have done some nice proof-of-concept trials of MHEG applications picking up text content distributed via the internet - for example, sourcing news stories off bbc.co.uk/news, putting twitter updates on screen and doing flickr photo searches, and displaying the results (for some reason, Cow was a favourite search of theirs!) Unfortunately this was all done with what we term reference recievers - basically Linux based PCs which pretend to be set top boxes. The actual software in the Freesat set top boxes to handle text stuff is unlikely to be fully functional yet - and streaming of video is a bit away away! It's all feasible long term though. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* 06 May 2008 14:10 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer I've just been to the Freesat launch event... http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 A couple of interesting points for backstagers: 1. Mark Thompson said that the BBC was committed to BBC services being open on all platforms; 2. He also said the iPlayer would be on Freesat as all Freesat boxes (and idTVs) have Ethernet ports. 3. He said that Freesat was an 'open platform' for on-demand content. Result, eh? Brian Butterworth -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
Yep - the BBC Archive Trial was an interesting project, and proves much of the technicalities and that, along with another trial called BBC+ did feed into the Freesat specifications. The Archive Trial used Netgem iPlayer DTT boxes which also have ethernet ports and a number were given to people to try the technology out in the field. However there's still work to be done to take it from concept stage to a full production model. And those Freesat set top boxes will still need their software updates :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 08 May 2008 12:00 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer Andrew, There was a demo of a system using MHEG5 and the Creative Archive that we were shown at the MGEIT(un)F last year. Shouldn't be a problem to do a Flash video player now the format has been 'opened'. My first app for that system would be a Podcast player... I've got a Humax Foxsat-HD, and very nice it is too. There was a fSfS box on the TV before, it is like going from a ZX Spectrum to an XBox 360... 2008/5/8 Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED]: All the boxes have ethernet ports, and my colleagues at BBC Research and Innovation have done some nice proof-of-concept trials of MHEG applications picking up text content distributed via the internet - for example, sourcing news stories off bbc.co.uk/news, putting twitter updates on screen and doing flickr photo searches, and displaying the results (for some reason, Cow was a favourite search of theirs!) Unfortunately this was all done with what we term reference recievers - basically Linux based PCs which pretend to be set top boxes. The actual software in the Freesat set top boxes to handle text stuff is unlikely to be fully functional yet - and streaming of video is a bit away away! It's all feasible long term though. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 06 May 2008 14:10 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer I've just been to the Freesat launch event... http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 A couple of interesting points for backstagers: 1. Mark Thompson said that the BBC was committed to BBC services being open on all platforms; 2. He also said the iPlayer would be on Freesat as all Freesat boxes (and idTVs) have Ethernet ports. 3. He said that Freesat was an 'open platform' for on-demand content. Result, eh? Brian Butterworth -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
2008/5/8 Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yep - the BBC Archive Trial was an interesting project, and proves much of the technicalities and that, along with another trial called BBC+ did feed into the Freesat specifications. The Archive Trial used Netgem iPlayer DTT boxes which also have ethernet ports and a number were given to people to try the technology out in the field. However there's still work to be done to take it from concept stage to a full production model. And those Freesat set top boxes will still need their software updates :) They update just fine, I have done it to a few already, takes about a minute on mine. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* 08 May 2008 12:00 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer Andrew, There was a demo of a system using MHEG5 and the Creative Archive that we were shown at the MGEIT(un)F last year. Shouldn't be a problem to do a Flash video player now the format has been 'opened'. My first app for that system would be a Podcast player... I've got a Humax Foxsat-HD, and very nice it is too. There was a fSfS box on the TV before, it is like going from a ZX Spectrum to an XBox 360... 2008/5/8 Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED]: All the boxes have ethernet ports, and my colleagues at BBC Research and Innovation have done some nice proof-of-concept trials of MHEG applications picking up text content distributed via the internet - for example, sourcing news stories off bbc.co.uk/news, putting twitter updates on screen and doing flickr photo searches, and displaying the results (for some reason, Cow was a favourite search of theirs!) Unfortunately this was all done with what we term reference recievers - basically Linux based PCs which pretend to be set top boxes. The actual software in the Freesat set top boxes to handle text stuff is unlikely to be fully functional yet - and streaming of video is a bit away away! It's all feasible long term though. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth *Sent:* 06 May 2008 14:10 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer I've just been to the Freesat launch event... http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 A couple of interesting points for backstagers: 1. Mark Thompson said that the BBC was committed to BBC services being open on all platforms; 2. He also said the iPlayer would be on Freesat as all Freesat boxes (and idTVs) have Ethernet ports. 3. He said that Freesat was an 'open platform' for on-demand content. Result, eh? Brian Butterworth -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
RE: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
They'll need a few more before the ethernet port does everything we need of them :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 08 May 2008 13:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer 2008/5/8 Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Yep - the BBC Archive Trial was an interesting project, and proves much of the technicalities and that, along with another trial called BBC+ did feed into the Freesat specifications. The Archive Trial used Netgem iPlayer DTT boxes which also have ethernet ports and a number were given to people to try the technology out in the field. However there's still work to be done to take it from concept stage to a full production model. And those Freesat set top boxes will still need their software updates :) They update just fine, I have done it to a few already, takes about a minute on mine. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 08 May 2008 12:00 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer Andrew, There was a demo of a system using MHEG5 and the Creative Archive that we were shown at the MGEIT(un)F last year. Shouldn't be a problem to do a Flash video player now the format has been 'opened'. My first app for that system would be a Podcast player... I've got a Humax Foxsat-HD, and very nice it is too. There was a fSfS box on the TV before, it is like going from a ZX Spectrum to an XBox 360... 2008/5/8 Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED]: All the boxes have ethernet ports, and my colleagues at BBC Research and Innovation have done some nice proof-of-concept trials of MHEG applications picking up text content distributed via the internet - for example, sourcing news stories off bbc.co.uk/news, putting twitter updates on screen and doing flickr photo searches, and displaying the results (for some reason, Cow was a favourite search of theirs!) Unfortunately this was all done with what we term reference recievers - basically Linux based PCs which pretend to be set top boxes. The actual software in the Freesat set top boxes to handle text stuff is unlikely to be fully functional yet - and streaming of video is a bit away away! It's all feasible long term though. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 06 May 2008 14:10 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer I've just been to the Freesat launch event... http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 A couple of interesting points for backstagers: 1. Mark Thompson said that the BBC was committed to BBC services being open on all platforms; 2. He also said the iPlayer would be on Freesat as all Freesat boxes (and idTVs) have Ethernet ports. 3. He said that Freesat was an 'open platform' for on-demand content. Result, eh? Brian Butterworth -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002 -- Please email me back if you
Re: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
On 5/8/08, Andrew Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately this was all done with what we term reference recievers - basically Linux based PCs which pretend to be set top boxes. The actual software in the Freesat set top boxes to handle text stuff is unlikely to be fully functional yet - and streaming of video is a bit away away! Out of interest, does anyone know if any of the Freesat receivers are Linux based?
RE: [backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
Out of interest, does anyone know if any of the Freesat receivers are Linux based? Given their ethernet socket, in-the-field software upgrade facility to enable or add features, plus some cool translucency effects on the EPG and NN banner (from the digitalspy screenies of the Humax HD receiver) I don't think this is an unreasonable expectation to hold. It'd certainly be a practical decision to make, giving the FSC a lot more flexibility after units start to roll out to viewers' homes. Fingers crossed they are :D Can't wait to see the first hacks for freesat receivers!
[backstage] Freesat
Impressed by the plugs on bbc.co.uk, I headed off to freesat.co.uk to read all about it - shame none of the online retailers linked to from that site actually has any product to sell... Of the 4 links, only Argos actually lists any STBs, but they don't have stock. John Lewis says 'no results were found for freesat, Comet links to a page of Freeview STBs, and a search for 'freesat' on Currys brings up 5 pages of stuff with 'Free' in the name, including Freezers, Freejet hoovers and Freecom network drives. Not a good start. -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Freesat: open platform AND iPlayer
I've just been to the Freesat launch event... http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 A couple of interesting points for backstagers: 1. Mark Thompson said that the BBC was committed to BBC services being open on all platforms; 2. He also said the iPlayer would be on Freesat as all Freesat boxes (and idTVs) have Ethernet ports. 3. He said that Freesat was an 'open platform' for on-demand content. Result, eh? Brian Butterworth
[backstage] Freesat - Mark Thompson on Open Platforms
I'm impressed by Mark Thompson's statement today... Then Mr Thompson made a statement about the ability to allow all-comers access to the platform: This is some way in the future, months rather than years, the approach we would take (we have yet to discuss it fully) from the BBC is that this is an Open Platform, and just as we are committed with our IPTV offerings like iPlayer on the web, absolute designed to work in an Open Environment, where people have a free choice. So I would say on Freesat exactly the same. Although we want clarity in the user interface, in the EPG, what follows is this should be an Open Platform where people get as wide a choice as possible. Even, by the way, if that means in some senses, cannibalization of the original BBC programmes. We believe passionately in Open Platforms and not in walled gardens and not in gatekeeping. http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051369 On 06/05/2008, Peter Bowyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Impressed by the plugs on bbc.co.uk, I headed off to freesat.co.uk to read all about it - shame none of the online retailers linked to from that site actually has any product to sell... Of the 4 links, only Argos actually lists any STBs, but they don't have stock. John Lewis says 'no results were found for freesat, Comet links to a page of Freeview STBs, and a search for 'freesat' on Currys brings up 5 pages of stuff with 'Free' in the name, including Freezers, Freejet hoovers and Freecom network drives. Not a good start. -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Just monitoring the BBC Freesat thing... It seems that on 11.427Mhz (H 27.5, an Arqiva Mux) there are now four Freesat channels, Freesat home, Freesat Common C, Freesat SSU and Freesat OAD. Can anyone help with what an SSU or OAD is? Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Dave Whitehead wrote: I'd keep an eye on a thread over at digitalspy from others are experimenting with the Freesat EPG data currentlty being transmitted. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=751053 Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't seen it. With a bit of tweaking I was able to get the testing EPG data into the Myth database. It seems it's simply standard EIT being broadcast on a non-standard PID, but that and the fact that the programme titles are, mostly, scrambled, may well be because it's just trial data. It was interesting to see the TVAnytime CRIDs in there as on Freeview. It all looks very encouraging. Of course, there will be people reading this mailing list who know all this and also the future plans and are probably feeling quite frustrated that they can't correct all the misapprehensions that are going round. David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
On 11/02/2008, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. Awesome work - thank you! :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- | Matt Hammond | Research Engineer, FMT, BBC, Kingswood Warren, Tadworth, Surrey, UK | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Hi Matt, Thanks for taking the trouble to find out. I rather thought that there would be some issue of exclusive access to the specs. At least Freesat are aware of the issue. From the MHEG side I can at least experiment with the test streams that are already being transmitted and try to reverse engineer them. It mostly works already with the current code and I was actually alerted to the test streams by someone noticing the Press Red banner. What would be really nice would be to have some information that would allow MythTV to use the EPG information in Freesat. There have been hints about where the test transmissions might be found but nothing substantive. Clearly the success of Freesat depends on the involvement of the set-top box manufacturers. However, open source projects also have a role to play in providing testing and feedback. After all, at the moment probably the only people who can view the MHEG test transmissions, outside the labs, are MythTV users. Thanks again, David Matt Hammond wrote: Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
I'd keep an eye on a thread over at digitalspy from others are experimenting with the Freesat EPG data currentlty being transmitted. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=751053 Dave - Original Message - From: David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects Hi Matt, Thanks for taking the trouble to find out. I rather thought that there would be some issue of exclusive access to the specs. At least Freesat are aware of the issue. From the MHEG side I can at least experiment with the test streams that are already being transmitted and try to reverse engineer them. It mostly works already with the current code and I was actually alerted to the test streams by someone noticing the Press Red banner. What would be really nice would be to have some information that would allow MythTV to use the EPG information in Freesat. There have been hints about where the test transmissions might be found but nothing substantive. Clearly the success of Freesat depends on the involvement of the set-top box manufacturers. However, open source projects also have a role to play in providing testing and feedback. After all, at the moment probably the only people who can view the MHEG test transmissions, outside the labs, are MythTV users. Thanks again, David Matt Hammond wrote: Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Brian Butterworth wrote: Any chance you could get it to plug into the Windows Meda Center? Not having MHEG is a bit annoying. I can't say because I don't have Windows Media Centre. Although the MHEG engine in Myth is a more-or-less independent library there is the need for a glue module that does things like producing the screen image in a form required by the Myth on-screen-display code and picking up key/remote-control presses. Does Windows Media Centre have support for DSMCC? If not you're going to have to add that first. David. P.S. I'm trying again as I originally sent this from a different email address and I don't think it got through the first time. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
On 14/02/2008, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: Any chance you could get it to plug into the Windows Meda Center? Not having MHEG is a bit annoying. I can't say because I don't have Windows Media Centre. Although the MHEG engine in Myth is a more-or-less independent library there is the need for a glue module that does things like producing the screen image in a form required by the Myth on-screen-display code and picking up key/remote-control presses. Does Windows Media Centre have support for DSMCC? If not you're going to have to add that first. It would appear so, it seems to be part of DirectX9. http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c_Summer_03/directX/htm/dsmcc_section.asp David. P.S. I'm trying again as I originally sent this from a different email address and I don't think it got through the first time. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Brian Butterworth wrote: On 14/02/2008, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: Any chance you could get it to plug into the Windows Meda Center? Not having MHEG is a bit annoying. I can't say because I don't have Windows Media Centre. Although the MHEG engine in Myth is a more-or-less independent library there is the need for a glue module that does things like producing the screen image in a form required by the Myth on-screen-display code and picking up key/remote-control presses. Does Windows Media Centre have support for DSMCC? If not you're going to have to add that first. It would appear so, it seems to be part of DirectX9. http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c_Summer_03/directX/htm/dsmcc_section.asp That just gives the layout of the header of a DSM-CC section (table) when it is sent as part of an MPEG stream. There is some example code that shows how to extract it from the stream: http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/gettingmpeg2psitables.asp I could not find any reference to any code within Direct X which actually takes these sections and builds the carousel. You could adapt the DSMCC code in Myth. Since it, along with the MHEG code, are open source you can use them in any way that's compatible with GPL. David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Freesat - oppotunistic data for podcasts
Matt, Good afternoon. I posted a suggestion about doing backstage stuff for the upcoming Freesat project, presumably using MHEG5. I quite like the idea of using the opportunistic data facility - bandwidth that becomes usable in a lumpy way due to the way MPEG2/MPEG4 works. If the picture becomes static, there can be a lot of capacity free for that moment, when motion or edits occur, the capacity reduces to zero. My suggestion is to use this as a slow backchannel to feed the BBC's vod/podcasts to Freesat boxes that have a hard drive. Is this a practicable thing that I could sort when I'm not at work? Hope this is helpful Brian
RE: [backstage] Freesat - oppotunistic data for podcasts
please, get me off your spamlist!!! Mr. Baker _ Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Brian Butterworth Verzonden: maandag 19 november 2007 15:53 Aan: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Onderwerp: [backstage] Freesat - oppotunistic data for podcasts Matt, Good afternoon. I posted a suggestion about doing backstage stuff for the upcoming Freesat project, presumably using MHEG5. I quite like the idea of using the opportunistic data facility - bandwidth that becomes usable in a lumpy way due to the way MPEG2/MPEG4 works. If the picture becomes static, there can be a lot of capacity free for that moment, when motion or edits occur, the capacity reduces to zero. My suggestion is to use this as a slow backchannel to feed the BBC's vod/podcasts to Freesat boxes that have a hard drive. Is this a practicable thing that I could sort when I'm not at work? Hope this is helpful Brian
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage - can we MHEG? Yes we can...
On 09/11/2007, Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: On 09/11/2007, *Dave Crossland* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/11/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - an alternative electronic programme guide By alternative, do you mean user-generated, so when there's some low quality programming people can , ahem, express their opinions? I guess that would depend upon if the system has a return path - like an ethernet connection! Actually, I wondered whether you were suggesting, say, a satellite/ Interweb mash-up of some kind, where the Freesat box's MHEG engine could incorporate data from somewhere other than the satellite, and had the programmability to be able to embed, or otherwise render, the secondary data into the display. I was thinking that there is a great scope for a mash-up here. Firstly, there is the fact that many of the set-top boxes will have hard drives, which could add a lot of functionality; Secondly, there is the scope to use the 'opportunistic data' on the satellite transponders. At any point where the data output from the MPEG-2 encoding process drops (as it does) then this data could be used for background data delivery. For example, we could slowly stream all the BBC's podcasts in the background this way, or the RSS feeds etc. Thirdly, having a linkage from the Freesat EPG would be great as it would allow linkages; Fourth, if the boxes also have broadband connections, there is the scope for a personalized experience, perhaps even including remote access to the EPG content! So yes... So, for example, in the EPG, you could ask to have rottentomato.com votes for upcoming movies incorporated, which would require the box to be able to: a) grab those ratings, and b) correlate them with the EPG entries without c) the EPG interface becoming ludicrous. Even usefuller would be the ability to grab personalized gubbins from sites based on your very own ID, so that your have your mates' insane opinions show up, with hilarious consequences. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
[backstage] Freesat and backstage?
Dearest readers of this electronic messaging system, I would be most delighted if you cast your impeccable intelligences over this page of hypertexual links http://www.rapidtvnews.com/default.asp?sourceid=smenu=1twindow=mad=sdetail=2313wpage=1skeyword=sidate=ccat=ccatm=restate=restatus=reoption=retype=repmin=repmax=rebed=rebath=subname=pform=sc=1966hn=rapidtvnewshe=.com If it pleases your most gracious personages to consider the possibilities that the proposed joyful service that is to be brought unto our homes under the delightful moniker of Freesat (literally, satellite without charge, from the English) may be enhanced to a state of primordial ecstasy if certain enhancements could be provided from our collective considerable intelligence. I would propose that Freesat and backstage could provide some special services for Freesat upon the commencement of the service in Springtime of the year ultimate. For your consideration potential applications may be: - enhanced cartographic display of precipitations and other meteorological factors; - a service of podcasts downloads for a most personal video recorder; - an electronic alternative guide of programmes; Does anyone concur? Your most humble savant Brian
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage?
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT LOL -- Noah Slater http://www.bytesexual.org/ Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as society is free to use the results. - R. Stallman - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage?
I understand why you have to react this way Matthew, but after the discussion on netiquette and politeness, you must admit that was expleteve deleted hilarious. Vijay. On 09/11/2007, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm going to say this once and once only - this is not appropriate on the mailing list - this is a warning for everyone - if you behave in this manor you will be removed from the list. Please consider this a polite warning... Next time action will be taken. M
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage?
On 11/9/07, vijay chopra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand why you have to react this way Matthew, but after the discussion on netiquette and politeness, you must admit that was expleteve deleted hilarious. Vijay. I will also have to agree. It was amazing. -spiros On 09/11/2007, Matthew Cashmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm going to say this once and once only - this is not appropriate on the mailing list - this is a warning for everyone - if you behave in this manor you will be removed from the list. Please consider this a polite warning... Next time action will be taken. M
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage?
Dave, I have to say I wasn't even remotely offended! I would say I laughed but that might be inappropriate. On 09/11/2007, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/11/2007, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/11/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone concur? WHAT THE IS THIS -- Regards, Dave This message is intended to be amusing and does not reflect the view or sense of humour of any of my employers. I apologise if anyone was offended for this inappropriate behavior, after a year of discussion on this list with Brian I have a certain sense of camaraderie but this was crossing a line. Apologies. -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
[backstage] Freesat and backstage - can we MHEG? Yes we can...
Freesat is launching next Spring. From what I understand it will use MHEG5 to deliver the interactive services. Given the rather old-fashioned look of the current crop of OpenTV services on digital satellite, I thought perhaps backstage.bbc.co.uk could come up with some better: - weather maps (3D? Local ones? Travel ones etc) - an alternative electronic programme guide - a BBC podcast download service for a PVR This might be any easy win for backstage!
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage?
On 11/9/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would propose that Freesat and backstage could provide some special services for Freesat upon the commencement of the service in Springtime of the year ultimate. An interesting proposition - however, extra datacasting services would still require bandwidth from somewhere. Whom would you expect to pay for this? - martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage - can we MHEG? Yes we can...
On 09/11/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - an alternative electronic programme guide By alternative, do you mean user-generated, so when there's some low quality programming people can , ahem, express their opinions? -- Regards, Dave This email is personal opinion and doesn't reflect any views of any employers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage?
On 09/11/2007, Martin Deutsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/9/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would propose that Freesat and backstage could provide some special services for Freesat upon the commencement of the service in Springtime of the year ultimate. An interesting proposition - however, extra datacasting services would still require bandwidth from somewhere. Whom would you expect to pay for this? The BBC? I thought we would be mashing up Auntie's data... I was hoping the idea should be to increase the value of Freesat... - martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage - can we MHEG? Yes we can...
Brian Butterworth wrote: On 09/11/2007, *Dave Crossland* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/11/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - an alternative electronic programme guide By alternative, do you mean user-generated, so when there's some low quality programming people can , ahem, express their opinions? I guess that would depend upon if the system has a return path - like an ethernet connection! Actually, I wondered whether you were suggesting, say, a satellite/ Interweb mash-up of some kind, where the Freesat box's MHEG engine could incorporate data from somewhere other than the satellite, and had the programmability to be able to embed, or otherwise render, the secondary data into the display. So, for example, in the EPG, you could ask to have rottentomato.com votes for upcoming movies incorporated, which would require the box to be able to: a) grab those ratings, and b) correlate them with the EPG entries without c) the EPG interface becoming ludicrous. Even usefuller would be the ability to grab personalized gubbins from sites based on your very own ID, so that your have your mates' insane opinions show up, with hilarious consequences. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat and backstage - can we MHEG? Yes we can...
On 09/11/2007, Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, for example, in the EPG, you could ask to have rottentomato.com votes for upcoming movies incorporated, which would require the box to be able to: a) grab those ratings, and b) correlate them with the EPG entries without c) the EPG interface becoming ludicrous. Even usefuller would be the ability to grab personalized gubbins from sites based on your very own ID, so that your have your mates' insane opinions show up, with hilarious consequences. WHAT THE, oh wait, no - that's exactly the kind of awesome stuff I meant to suggest :-D -- Regards, Dave Personal opinion only, doesn't reflect the views of any employers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Freesat
Sorry if this isn't the best place to ask this question, but maybe somebody here knows - is Freesat proposing to launch a set of channels on a different satellite, or is it just an alternative EPG to Sky's? I've looked at the consultation paper, but it doesn't go in to any of the technical details (though I think it might mention MHEG somewhere). cheers Scot - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Freesat
Sorry if this isn't the best place to ask this question, but maybe somebody here knows - is Freesat proposing to launch a set of channels on a different satellite, or is it just an alternative EPG to Sky's? The plan appears to be to just re-use what's already on the satellites, but put different EPG round it. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
