RE: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
Router upstairs in back bedroom. Freesat set top box downstairs in living room. Master phone socket at the bottom of the stairs. Homeplug's far easier in such a scenario - which is the scenario in my house. Freesat are a joint venture, 50% owned by the BBC and 50% owned by ITV plc, so it's not really Auntie's brand. They have taken the decision to inform the public that there are different ways to connect their set top box using the various available methods - ethernet, Homeplug and wireless bridge. All are legal and valid at this time. From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 14 December 2009 17:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal? As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to Why would you want to use a HomePlug? People used to have landline phones upstairs, and everyone was happy with wires for that. HomePlug is not just pointless, it is expensive and is to radio hams as light pollution is to astronomers. Is there something ... not iPlayer ... about a cat5 cable? I can understand BT doing Homeplug, because BT is a telco, but Freesat is Auntie's brand! 2009/12/14 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On 14-Dec-2009, at 16:29, Brian Butterworth wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ttLGbZI7k Nice video - but it's using these http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/ Homeplug adaptor. I can't find anywhere where it says that these Homeplug things are legal. They didn't used to be. They've been sold in the UK since the late 80s... Can someone point out where I can find where it says they are legit? A number of trolls have descended on my site saying that they are not, and I can't find a definitive answer. There's an going dispute between the The Radio Society and Ofcom (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/power_line_networking/), but kit compliant with the standards is perfectly legal. M. -- mo mcroberts http://nevali.net iChat: mo.mcrobe...@me.com Jabber/GTalk: m...@ilaven.net Twitter: @nevali Run Leopard or Snow Leopard? Set Quick Look free with DropLook - http://labs.jazzio.com/DropLook/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
The RF noise generated by these technologies is quite bad, it's in a band where noise can propogate worldwide via the ionosphere. It can prevent receivers locking to, or demodulating a signal. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP116.pdf Also, it's very easy to demodulate the Ethernet traffic radiated from your house wiring from one of these systems - it's not very secure! Simon PS Single wire telephone extensions? Alan Pope wrote: 2009/12/14 Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv: As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to Why would you want to use a HomePlug? Because it's easier than flood wiring the whole house. People used to have landline phones upstairs, and everyone was happy with wires for that. Usually one wire, singular. With HomePlug I can have ethernet wherever there is a power point, and I do move them around now and then. HomePlug is not just pointless, it is expensive and is to radio hams as light pollution is to astronomers. I must say I'd never heard of the radio interference at all. Cheers, Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- *Simon Thompson MEng MIET* Research and Development Engineer mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
On 15 Dec 2009, at 10:33, Simon Thompson wrote: Also, it's very easy to demodulate the Ethernet traffic radiated from your house wiring from one of these systems - it's not very secure! I think the Homeplug AV standard uses 128-bit AES traffic encryption, which should be enough to foil the casual attacker, assuming it's competently implemented. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
2009/12/15 Simon Thompson simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk: Also, it's very easy to demodulate the Ethernet traffic radiated from your house wiring from one of these systems - it's not very secure! Mitigated by the use of 128bit AES encryption (in the ones I have anyway). Cheers, Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
Wasn't encryption an option on Homeplug 1.0? I thought it came with either a default password or the option to switch it on. Stephen Jolly wrote: On 15 Dec 2009, at 10:33, Simon Thompson wrote: Also, it's very easy to demodulate the Ethernet traffic radiated from your house wiring from one of these systems - it's not very secure! I think the Homeplug AV standard uses 128-bit AES traffic encryption, which should be enough to foil the casual attacker, assuming it's competently implemented. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- *Simon Thompson MEng MIET* Research and Development Engineer mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
Oops, same team did look into internal systems, but the noise problem is similar. I'll see if I can find their report. Mo McRoberts wrote: On 15-Dec-2009, at 10:33, Simon Thompson wrote: The RF noise generated by these technologies is quite bad, it's in a band where noise can propogate worldwide via the ionosphere. It can prevent receivers locking to, or demodulating a signal. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP116.pdf Is that not a four and a half year old report into a trial of a PLT system which delivered broadband access via power supply lines, rather than a product which makes use of internal power cabling to provide home networking? (I realise the underlying tech is similar, though things have moved on a bit in that time, but context is somewhat important, no?) M. -- *Simon Thompson MEng MIET* Research and Development Engineer PRINCE2^TM Registered Practitioner *BBC Research and Development* A209, Kingswood Warren, Woodland Way, Tadworth, Surrey, KT20 6NP *T:* 01737 839818 *E:* simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
Radio Society has more info http://www.rsgb.org/plt/ In particular they are chasing after the Comtrend models supplied by BT. Paul On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 11:24:53 +, you wrote: Oops, same team did look into internal systems, but the noise problem is similar. I'll see if I can find their report. Mo McRoberts wrote: On 15-Dec-2009, at 10:33, Simon Thompson wrote: The RF noise generated by these technologies is quite bad, it's in a band where noise can propogate worldwide via the ionosphere. It can prevent receivers locking to, or demodulating a signal. http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP116.pdf Is that not a four and a half year old report into a trial of a PLT system which delivered broadband access via power supply lines, rather than a product which makes use of internal power cabling to provide home networking? (I realise the underlying tech is similar, though things have moved on a bit in that time, but context is somewhat important, no?) M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:11, Paul Webster p...@dabdig.com wrote: Radio Society has more info http://www.rsgb.org/plt/ In particular they are chasing after the Comtrend models supplied by BT. I thought the Comtrend powerline adapters aren't HomePlug ( http://www.homeplug.org/) standard compliant. Which makes me wonder why people are drawing the conclusion that all PLAs are bad, when at worst it appears to be a relative handful of non-standard ones that may be causing a limited amount of interference. It's like saying that because some cars on the road don't meet emissions standards then all cars don't and that all cars are illegal, going by some of the posts on the forums linked to in this thread. Scot
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:17:47 +, you wrote: On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:11, Paul Webster p...@dabdig.com wrote: Radio Society has more info http://www.rsgb.org/plt/ In particular they are chasing after the Comtrend models supplied by BT. I thought the Comtrend powerline adapters aren't HomePlug ( http://www.homeplug.org/) standard compliant. Which makes me wonder why people are drawing the conclusion that all PLAs are bad, when at worst it appears to be a relative handful of non-standard ones that may be causing a limited amount of interference. It's like saying that because some cars on the road don't meet emissions standards then all cars don't and that all cars are illegal, going by some of the posts on the forums linked to in this thread. BT website says: This product is compatible with all other DS2 powerline adapters - it isn't compatible with the Homeplug adapters. Their organisation is: http://www.upaplc.org/page_viewer.asp?pid=5 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ttLGbZI7k Nice video - but it's using these http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/ Homeplug adaptor. I can't find anywhere where it says that these Homeplug things are legal. They didn't used to be. Can someone point out where I can find where it says they are legit? A number of trolls have descended on my site saying that they are not, and I can't find a definitive answer. Thanks in advance -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
On 14-Dec-2009, at 16:29, Brian Butterworth wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ttLGbZI7k Nice video - but it's using these http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/ Homeplug adaptor. I can't find anywhere where it says that these Homeplug things are legal. They didn't used to be. They’ve been sold in the UK since the late 80s… Can someone point out where I can find where it says they are legit? A number of trolls have descended on my site saying that they are not, and I can't find a definitive answer. There’s an going dispute between the The Radio Society and Ofcom (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/power_line_networking/), but kit compliant with the standards is perfectly legal. M. -- mo mcroberts http://nevali.net iChat: mo.mcrobe...@me.com Jabber/GTalk: m...@ilaven.net Twitter: @nevali Run Leopard or Snow Leopard? Set Quick Look free with DropLook - http://labs.jazzio.com/DropLook/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
Comments here http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/bbc-iplayer-launches-in-december That Ofcom are reviewing interference. Paul -- Sent from my phone On 14 Dec 2009, at 16:29, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ttLGbZI7k Nice video - but it's using these http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/ Homeplug adaptor. I can't find anywhere where it says that these Homeplug things are legal. They didn't used to be. Can someone point out where I can find where it says they are legit? A number of trolls have descended on my site saying that they are not, and I can't find a definitive answer. Thanks in advance -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to Why would you want to use a HomePlug? People used to have landline phones upstairs, and everyone was happy with wires for that. HomePlug is not just pointless, it is expensive and is to radio hams as light pollution is to astronomers. Is there something ... not iPlayer ... about a cat5 cable? I can understand BT doing Homeplug, because BT is a telco, but Freesat is Auntie's brand! 2009/12/14 Mo McRoberts m...@nevali.net On 14-Dec-2009, at 16:29, Brian Butterworth wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ttLGbZI7k Nice video - but it's using these http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/ Homeplug adaptor. I can't find anywhere where it says that these Homeplug things are legal. They didn't used to be. They’ve been sold in the UK since the late 80s… Can someone point out where I can find where it says they are legit? A number of trolls have descended on my site saying that they are not, and I can't find a definitive answer. There’s an going dispute between the The Radio Society and Ofcom (see http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/power_line_networking/), but kit compliant with the standards is perfectly legal. M. -- mo mcroberts http://nevali.net iChat: mo.mcrobe...@me.com Jabber/GTalk: m...@ilaven.net Twitter: @nevali Run Leopard or Snow Leopard? Set Quick Look free with DropLook - http://labs.jazzio.com/DropLook/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
2009/12/14 Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv: As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to Why would you want to use a HomePlug? Because it's easier than flood wiring the whole house. People used to have landline phones upstairs, and everyone was happy with wires for that. Usually one wire, singular. With HomePlug I can have ethernet wherever there is a power point, and I do move them around now and then. HomePlug is not just pointless, it is expensive and is to radio hams as light pollution is to astronomers. I must say I'd never heard of the radio interference at all. Cheers, Al. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
Usually one wire, singular. With HomePlug I can have ethernet wherever there is a power point, and I do move them around now and then. Can I cast my vote for a 20m CAT5 cable under the carpet, up the stairs, to a discreetly placed gigabit switch on the landing / in the study? You still only use one power socket, way better throughput and far less annoying to our radio ham friends =) and everyone likes ducting CAT5, right? Those flat CAT5 cables look like they could do the trick nicely, but I'm more a fan of the 'just wind it around the banister' method ;) turn your network infrastructure into additional decoration! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 17:30, Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tvwrote: Why would you want to use a HomePlug? To easily extend my home network. People used to have landline phones upstairs, and everyone was happy with wires for that. If everyone was happy with that, then DECT phone line extenders wouldn't exist. Seeing as DECT phone line extenders exist, I'm guessing not everyone was happy running wires. HomePlug is not just pointless, it is expensive and is to radio hams as light pollution is to astronomers. HomePlug isn't pointless and it's not expensive (especially compared to cost/effort of running CAT5 through a house). Maybe some Hams are getting some interference from some particular powerline devices - that doesn't mean that the powerline concept as a whole is somehow wrong or evil. Scot
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, Alan Pope wrote: 2009/12/14 Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv: As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to Why would you want to use a HomePlug? Because it's easier than flood wiring the whole house. Its also a good way of getting an emergency connection in when your main fibre feed to a building has been visited by Mr Rat and you've got to wait for a day or so for the contractors to find the break and splice it. Not to mention getting connections into exhibition spaces, etc that have thoughtfully had mains sockets put in floor boxes but no networking. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Is this BBC Homeplug product legal?
So, are they legal outside the home? The idea of using on in a conference space seems crazy to me, but I only ever go to conferences full of technology... 2009/12/14 Jon Knight j.p.kni...@lboro.ac.uk On Mon, 14 Dec 2009, Alan Pope wrote: 2009/12/14 Brian Butterworth briant...@freeview.tv: As someone who has been responsible for installation of enough cat5 to Why would you want to use a HomePlug? Because it's easier than flood wiring the whole house. Its also a good way of getting an emergency connection in when your main fibre feed to a building has been visited by Mr Rat and you've got to wait for a day or so for the contractors to find the break and splice it. Not to mention getting connections into exhibition spaces, etc that have thoughtfully had mains sockets put in floor boxes but no networking. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Brian Butterworth follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/briantist web: http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
