RE: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hannen Sent: 11 March 2008 00:20 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone My mum too - she keeps telling me that I should encourage the BBC to use fewer DRM restrictions... All the time... On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Sean DALY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My mother hates unnecessary technical complications (she finds computers and gadgets are complicated enough as it is) and DRM falls right into that category :-) Mine once asked me why the telly goes off when she presses the red button. She's learnt to use the cable remote now though :) -- Gareth Davis | Production Systems Specialist World Service Future Media, Digital Delivery Team - Part of BBC Global News Division * http://www.bbcworldservice.com/ * 702NE Bush House, Strand, London, WC2B 4PH - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
I will attempt to get some answers to your questions, although I think the iphone service is only a beta service at the moment? Andy Halsall wrote: This morning I came across the following; Subject: Re: [GeekUp] Fwd: [ORG-discuss] iPlayer DRM is over? From: Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Matt Lee has written a howto for dummies here: http://exploringfreedom.org/2008/03/08/bbc-iplayer-on-gnu-linux-without-flash-using-only-free-software/ it is less verbose and more onpoint than the flickr entry Basically, its a how-to describing how you can go and grab the videos being made available to iPhone users by the BBC via iPlayer, from pretty much any machine, the bonus being that the process and end result are all achievable using free software. The process should be fairly familiar to most people receiving this, but it boils down to; find the actual media source and download it. Now, a number of things concerned me. Firstly, the fact that the BBC are providing DRM free video, even though I was under the impression that this was not possible due to rather complex contractual, licensing and policy issues. A statement made by the BBC in June 2007 seems to confirm that, In order to maximise public value, the BBC must balance extending access to content with the need to maintain the interests of rights holders and the value of secondary rights in BBC programming. Without a time-based DRM framework the BBC would not be able to meet the terms of the trust's PVT (Public Value Test) decision. Well the new iPlayer for the iPhone appears to be DRM free, available to anyone, anywhere (if my rather quick and dirty look using US proxies are anything to go by). Moreover using the process detailed in the how-to, it is easily downloadable and indefinitely viewable. My second concern is that those of us who are using free software may use this method to download the shows we want to watch. Others will use it to grab and immediately re-distribute this BBC content. Of course this is already potentially possible on Windows based machines, by removing the DRM the downloaded shows are easly shared. With DRM free content now being made available, it may appear that any future unauthorised redistribution of this material is somehow related to those of us that use free software or asked for a DRM free service. There is already enough confusion about the free software message and the aims of the anti-DRM movmement. So if the BBC are entitled to distribute this material DRM free for the iPhone, why are they not providing it for other platforms? I'm sure Mac/Linux/Windows/$other users would quite like DRM free, non-expiring media. In addition, I have to wonder about the legality of ripping the BBC's iPlayer streams in the manner described in Matt's how-to, it works, and works well (or at least it did at around 18:00 today), the end result would be ideal for many people in a variety of circumstances. If the BBC are not entitled to distribute this material in the manner they are doing then how are the BBC going to justify this rather large lapse, a lapse caused by trying to support a very small if rather trendy minority group? The statement made by Anthony Rose to clarify why the iPhone has been singled out is, We started with iPhone because it is the device most optimised for high quality video currently available I'm not sure how credible that is, given the raft of multimedia capable mobile devices out there (many more capable than the iPhone), I'm surprised that this service wasn't geared toward all mobile devices, or even all non-windows machines, after all, without a DRM component, it will presumably work on quite a few devices and pretty much any modern computer. (As an addendum, I'd love to see the numbers on how many BBC employees' have iPhones... although I assume that would be outside the scope of any viable FOI request.) I note that the service for the iPhone is intended only to be used when the iPhone is connected via a wifi connection, in future if it were available via the mobile networks there would be a rather large additional concern. The iPhone (which is only available on one network in the UK and largley from a single provider) would have a rather unique selling point, a benefit that would be rather nice in commercial terms for the iPhone's supplier (even more than it is currently). I am already rather put out that the BBC requires that I use a Windows PC to get the full use out of iPlayer (which I cannot and will not do), I'd be even more annoyed if it required me to use a specific handset tied to a specific mobile carrier to get the best out of its mobile services as well. I have some stats from earlier in the year that I wanted to look at to see exactly how many people using non-windows devices were using the BBC's various web services, one thing that struck me (apart from the fact that there were
Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
On Monday 10 March 2008 08:55:46 Mr I Forrester wrote: I will attempt to get some answers to your questions, although I think the iphone service is only a beta service at the moment? Ian, I get the impresion some of them, or at least those related to future support for other mobile platforms may have been answered on one of the BBC blogs (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/03/bbc_iplayer_on_iphone_behind_t.html). However I think most of my points and queries still stand so any further info you could get would be nice. Thanks. Andy. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
Ok so I spoke to many people and there is no official answer, yet! Yes I know your all waiting with baited for some news but your'll have to wait a little longer it would seem. Till then, I would suggest you don't do anything your mother wouldn't be happy about. :) Cheers Mr I Forrester wrote: I will attempt to get some answers to your questions, although I think the iphone service is only a beta service at the moment? Andy Halsall wrote: This morning I came across the following; Subject: Re: [GeekUp] Fwd: [ORG-discuss] iPlayer DRM is over? From: Tim Dobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Matt Lee has written a howto for dummies here: http://exploringfreedom.org/2008/03/08/bbc-iplayer-on-gnu-linux-without-flash-using-only-free-software/ it is less verbose and more onpoint than the flickr entry Basically, its a how-to describing how you can go and grab the videos being made available to iPhone users by the BBC via iPlayer, from pretty much any machine, the bonus being that the process and end result are all achievable using free software. The process should be fairly familiar to most people receiving this, but it boils down to; find the actual media source and download it. Now, a number of things concerned me. Firstly, the fact that the BBC are providing DRM free video, even though I was under the impression that this was not possible due to rather complex contractual, licensing and policy issues. A statement made by the BBC in June 2007 seems to confirm that, In order to maximise public value, the BBC must balance extending access to content with the need to maintain the interests of rights holders and the value of secondary rights in BBC programming. Without a time-based DRM framework the BBC would not be able to meet the terms of the trust's PVT (Public Value Test) decision. Well the new iPlayer for the iPhone appears to be DRM free, available to anyone, anywhere (if my rather quick and dirty look using US proxies are anything to go by). Moreover using the process detailed in the how-to, it is easily downloadable and indefinitely viewable. My second concern is that those of us who are using free software may use this method to download the shows we want to watch. Others will use it to grab and immediately re-distribute this BBC content. Of course this is already potentially possible on Windows based machines, by removing the DRM the downloaded shows are easly shared. With DRM free content now being made available, it may appear that any future unauthorised redistribution of this material is somehow related to those of us that use free software or asked for a DRM free service. There is already enough confusion about the free software message and the aims of the anti-DRM movmement. So if the BBC are entitled to distribute this material DRM free for the iPhone, why are they not providing it for other platforms? I'm sure Mac/Linux/Windows/$other users would quite like DRM free, non-expiring media. In addition, I have to wonder about the legality of ripping the BBC's iPlayer streams in the manner described in Matt's how-to, it works, and works well (or at least it did at around 18:00 today), the end result would be ideal for many people in a variety of circumstances. If the BBC are not entitled to distribute this material in the manner they are doing then how are the BBC going to justify this rather large lapse, a lapse caused by trying to support a very small if rather trendy minority group? The statement made by Anthony Rose to clarify why the iPhone has been singled out is, We started with iPhone because it is the device most optimised for high quality video currently available I'm not sure how credible that is, given the raft of multimedia capable mobile devices out there (many more capable than the iPhone), I'm surprised that this service wasn't geared toward all mobile devices, or even all non-windows machines, after all, without a DRM component, it will presumably work on quite a few devices and pretty much any modern computer. (As an addendum, I'd love to see the numbers on how many BBC employees' have iPhones... although I assume that would be outside the scope of any viable FOI request.) I note that the service for the iPhone is intended only to be used when the iPhone is connected via a wifi connection, in future if it were available via the mobile networks there would be a rather large additional concern. The iPhone (which is only available on one network in the UK and largley from a single provider) would have a rather unique selling point, a benefit that would be rather nice in commercial terms for the iPhone's supplier (even more than it is currently). I am already rather put out that the BBC requires that I use a Windows PC to get the full use out of iPlayer (which I cannot and will not do), I'd be even more annoyed if it required me to use a specific handset tied to a specific
Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
Till then, I would suggest you don't do anything your mother wouldn't be happy about. I take it that isn't legal advice... :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
My mother hates unnecessary technical complications (she finds computers and gadgets are complicated enough as it is) and DRM falls right into that category :-) On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Andy Halsall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Till then, I would suggest you don't do anything your mother wouldn't be happy about. I take it that isn't legal advice... :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer, DRM, Free Software and the iPhone
My mum too - she keeps telling me that I should encourage the BBC to use fewer DRM restrictions... All the time... On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Sean DALY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My mother hates unnecessary technical complications (she finds computers and gadgets are complicated enough as it is) and DRM falls right into that category :-) On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 12:49 AM, Andy Halsall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Till then, I would suggest you don't do anything your mother wouldn't be happy about. I take it that isn't legal advice... :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
