Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
2009/5/23 Tim Dobson li...@tdobson.net: Hey there, This isn't a common question I'd guess but here's a good a place to ask as any! :) So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing dinghy. Am a bit late to this party, but a bloke at my sailing club attaches a rear-facing camera to a long cane sticking out the front of his cat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHimuDDAmks clearly, easier to do this with a catamaran, but might be worth a try since you get a better sense of what's occurring. - my favourite sailing/web crossover discovery is http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Tim Dobson wrote: I'll get some video up soon, Here is some of the video I took, feel free to take a look: http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509/SANY0004.MP4 (700mb) More will soon be found here: http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509 Gah... these uploads are hosing my ADSL... :p Cheers everyone, Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Hi Tim, Is this footage under a CC license? Might very well have a use for it. ; - ) http://www.withsailsandi.co.uk Kind regards, Gavin Gavin Pearce | Web Developer | Trinity Belmann Scott Limited Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, Berkshire. RG12 1BP, United Kingdom Direct: +44 (0) 1344 667420 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 667410 | Fax: +44 (0) 1344 667308 Skype: tbs-gavinpearce | Web: http://www.tbs.uk.com Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, RG12 1BP, United Kingdom. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 27 May 2009 15:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies Tim Dobson wrote: I'll get some video up soon, Here is some of the video I took, feel free to take a look: http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509/SANY0004.MP4 (700mb) More will soon be found here: http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509 Gah... these uploads are hosing my ADSL... :p Cheers everyone, Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ __ Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, RG12 1BP, United Kingdom. This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ __ Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, RG12 1BP, United Kingdom. This outbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Tim Dobson wrote: Tim Dobson wrote: I'll get some video up soon, Here is some of the video I took, feel free to take a look: http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509/SANY0004.MP4 (700mb) Is that from a Xacti? Has it had any filters applied or post-processing, e.g. been graded? They're excellent cameras for the price. Have you manually white-balanced the camera? There's a shot where the sky's chrominance changes suddenly as you tack onto port and I'm wondering if there's some sort of automatic thing going awry. Depth-of-field is huge, although you're losing some of the background (maybe camera optics). Really good effort - you're going to have fun trying to get that perfect shot with sailor, boat, water and surroundings in, but it's worth the effort. Will be nice to see a finalised clip from the rushes you're making -what sort of system are you using for editing? Simon -- *Simon Thompson MEng MIET* Research and Development Engineer *BBC Research and Development* mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
See Comments inline :) Simon Thompson wrote: Tim Dobson wrote: Tim Dobson wrote: I'll get some video up soon, Here is some of the video I took, feel free to take a look: http://files.tdobson.net/sailing240509/SANY0004.MP4 (700mb) Is that from a Xacti? Sanyo Xacti VPC-WH1 Sanyo: http://sanyo.com/xacti/english/products/vpc_wh1/index.html Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001SAMSQA/ref=ox_ya_oh_product Has it had any filters applied or post-processing, e.g. been graded? No. No filters were applied digitally, optically or in post production. They're excellent cameras for the price. Ian (Forrester) has been trying to get me to get a Sanyo for a while. For a waterproof HD video camera, Xacti's are pretty much the only ones in their price range as far as I know. I captured in the lowest possible quality - 30fps, 640x480 - the file I uploaded is exactly what the camera produced. I haven't done any transcoding or post production on that file. The reason for shooting in the lowest quality was because my large memory cards hadn't arrived yet, and also because none of my computers appear to be able to play 720p video or VGA at 60fps at the moment. :( Have you manually white-balanced the camera? No. I captured the everything on the defaults or auto settings. I think there may have been a point where the camera got switched from auto focus to manual focus without me notices, but I think it happened after this specific file was shot. There's a shot where the sky's chrominance changes suddenly as you tack onto port and I'm wondering if there's some sort of automatic thing going awry. That sounds plausible. Depth-of-field is huge, although you're losing some of the background (maybe camera optics). I had the camera zoomed a little constantly for much of the shot - I was trying to avoid the mast getting in the way too much, this may have had a negative effect looking back on it from this perspective as I think it's auto-focus system still took lots of input from the near field objects. Really good effort - you're going to have fun trying to get that perfect shot with sailor, boat, water and surroundings in, but it's worth the effort. Thanks. I *really* appreciate the feedback! :D I'm not sure I'm really after a perfect shot - I guess my idea of the perfect shot probably isn't realistically achievable on ones own. At the end of the day, I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to do at the moment, but having fun getting some cool video sounds like good plan. Will be nice to see a finalised clip from the rushes you're making -what sort of system are you using for editing? Hahah. So as I mentioned in a previous email, editing isn't really my priority at the moment. This is for several reasons: * I'm not really sure what I'm aiming to do with the video. I guess I'm trying to build upon something I did when I was younger with an Olympus Digital Camera and Windows Movie Maker: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7098519757224387962 I'm not sure where that leads me... * At the moment none of my computers will play 720p video. This makes editing it difficult as well! :) I think an upgrade is on the cards soon :) * I'm using Ubuntu, so my video editing options are fairly primitive. Ian (Forrester) swears by Pihlaja - http://pihlaja.wordpress.com/ Otherwise I'll be look through Cinelerra, LiVES, Lumiera, AVIDemux, Kdenlive, Kino as well as PiTiVi and the Open Movie Editor. I'll definitely publicise anything I do with it to the list - I've been pleasantly surprised by the amount of enthusiasm I've received. :) Many thanks, Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Tim Dobson wrote: * I'm using Ubuntu, so my video editing options are fairly primitive. Ian (Forrester) swears by Pihlaja - http://pihlaja.wordpress.com/ Ian would like me to out he doesn't swear by it - all he said was that it is interesting and that he wishes it was still being developed. Sorry about that! :) Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Tim Dobson wrote: So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing dinghy. It has a standard tripod mount so I was wondering about tying it on with desk tripod near the mast foot or something but I wondered if anyone had any prior experience or thoughts on how they'd do this. There are a few issues with mounting cameras on boats. 1. Mounting the camera unit high up has it's difficulties 1. by adding weight to the top-hamper (camera, mount and cabling) you decrease the stability of the boat 2. the fixing point can weaken the spar section 3. the higher up, the greater the arc of movement 2. If you're talking a dinghy, then you don't want the camera or mount to impede your exit from the boat in event of a capsize 3. The dinghy will probably have class rules - by adapting it, you may not be allowed to enter any events with it. 1. Contact the Principal Race Officer and the Scrutineer/Measurer 4. Make sure the camera is waterproof first. 5. HD video played an a large-ish screen is more immersive than SD on a box in the corner - you may feel motion sickness http://www.hqda.army.mil/ari/pdf/RR%201832.pdf Best I've seen is the Horizon True system http://www.youtube.com/v/s67s7ZHbsi0 http://www.horizontrue.com/sections/order.php but they're expensive for non-broadcast purposes. A colleague has also experimented with OpenGL motion-stabilising - perhaps an area for backstage to look at? If you're really interested, there's an Olympics test event at Portland in September called Sail for Gold http://www.sailracer.co.uk/events/event-v2.asp?eventid=18401 where I'm sure there'll be mounting systems in action. -- *Simon Thompson MEng MIET* Research and Development Engineer *BBC Research and Development* mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Wow! Dirk and Simon thanks for all that really interesting advice. Dirk, I don't actually have a Standard Laser, My Laser EPS is a bit more like a Blaze - not that many were made so it isn't so well known but thanks for the in depth advice. :) I had thought about mounting on the mast, but so much seems destined to go wrong (breaking the boat is potentially more extensive than losing the camera) that, for me, it's not worth putting it in that situation. My Camera is a consumer grade Sanyo Xacti VPC-WH1 which claims to be waterproof to 3m. I'm fairly certain it could manage submersion to 3m in calm conditions but being unceremoniously smacked into the surface at speed would probably take it out I suspect. It's freshwater I'm sailing on, but the camera has fantastic battery life so it would probably get fried. I'm not too worried about class and racing rules for several reasons: a) I'm really bad at racing and am usually following the fleet or come near the bottom on handicap. b) my sailing club is full of people who like sailing but who aren't obsessed with it from a competitive sense. c) my boat is from a fairly extinct class and the class rules are far from clear :P At the moment I'm shooting in 30fps, 640x480 because: a) my 32GB memory card hasn't arrived yet b) embarrassingly, none of my machines have good enough graphics cards (etc!) to play HD video... yet (I sense an upgrade on the horizon!) c) I also need to invest in more storage! If HD is too immersive due to lack of motion steadying kit well that someone else's problem... the video can be later downscaled if needs be... Just to be clear, I'm doing from the point of view of someone who loves sailing and watching video of people sailing but finds it hard to relate to 99% of the videos or bits of video on youtube I see... I intend to release all the footage I capture under Creative Commons Attribution or Creative Commons Attribution Sharealike Licences and am certainly not looking to make any money out of it. (The idea being that I certainly can't be bothered to do that much editing, but hopefully someone else can!) Cheers for all the really encouraging advice, I'll get some video up soon, Tim Simon Thompson wrote: Dirk-Willem van Gulik wrote: Tim Dobson wrote: So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing dinghy. It has a standard tripod mount so I was wondering about tying it on with desk tripod near the mast foot or something but I wondered if anyone had any prior experience or thoughts on how they'd do this. There are a few issues with mounting cameras on boats. 1. Mounting the camera unit high up has it's difficulties 1. by adding weight to the top-hamper (camera, mount and cabling) you decrease the stability of the boat 2. the fixing point can weaken the spar section 3. the higher up, the greater the arc of movement 2. If you're talking a dinghy, then you don't want the camera or mount to impede your exit from the boat in event of a capsize 3. The dinghy will probably have class rules - by adapting it, you may not be allowed to enter any events with it. 1. Contact the Principal Race Officer and the Scrutineer/Measurer 4. Make sure the camera is waterproof first. 5. HD video played an a large-ish screen is more immersive than SD on a box in the corner - you may feel motion sickness http://www.hqda.army.mil/ari/pdf/RR%201832.pdf Best I've seen is the Horizon True system http://www.youtube.com/v/s67s7ZHbsi0 http://www.horizontrue.com/sections/order.php but they're expensive for non-broadcast purposes. A colleague has also experimented with OpenGL motion-stabilising - perhaps an area for backstage to look at? If you're really interested, there's an Olympics test event at Portland in September called Sail for Gold http://www.sailracer.co.uk/events/event-v2.asp?eventid=18401 where I'm sure there'll be mounting systems in action. -- *Simon Thompson MEng MIET* Research and Development Engineer *BBC Research and Development* mailto:simon.thomp...@rd.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Tim Dobson wrote: So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing dinghy. It has a standard tripod mount so I was wondering about tying it on with desk tripod near the mast foot or something but I wondered if anyone had any prior experience or thoughts on how they'd do this. I found that a standard head* (or a bottlecap head**) will do OK - and it is easily mounted by swapping out the bolds of the fairlead which keep the traveller line or the cunningham for a longer one upside down (and with a washer below decks - as they have the right diameter. Also - a lot of older lasers have 4 empty/pained-over holes where you can mount a compass - on port from the horizontal runout of the cunningham. For the speed of the bold you need to go imperial though - the metric ones will ruin your camera - and if you do not use something like a standard head (which makes swapping easy) be very sure you two counter-twisted or wing nuts+plastic washer at the right distance - as otherwise you will ruin the threads of the camera. However it is not ideal - they are near the deck (but any higher and the beam/sails obsucre the view all the time) - and hence easily trown out of alignmnet or vibrating as you move around. I've had a lot of bad luck with putting them higher up; e.g. in the mast - the speed at which that will hit the water or other things seems more than the waterproofing could stand. And on salt water - it is pretty much game over if the battery has any charge left. Looking forward to your pictures. Dw. *: like these http://brisbane.gumtree.com.au/c-Stuff-for-Sale-video-camera-digital-camera-Slik-SBH-100-ball-head-W0QQAdIdZ106211124 -- without the quick release ! **: http://www.semsons.com/botcaptripfo.html, http://www.amazon.com/Dynomighty-Bottle-Cap-Tripod/dp/B000TR80SS or try the ones they put on top of a mountineering walking stick. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
I clearly remember having seen an ad (ThinkGeek perhaps?) for a tripod mount with three large (2 or 3 inch) suction cups, designed for speedboats (!), claimed to be ideal for curved slick surfaces and to grip even better in wetter conditions. If I manage to find it I'll post a link :-) Sean On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Tim Dobson li...@tdobson.net wrote: Hey there, This isn't a common question I'd guess but here's a good a place to ask as any! :) So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing dinghy. It has a standard tripod mount so I was wondering about tying it on with desk tripod near the mast foot or something but I wondered if anyone had any prior experience or thoughts on how they'd do this. I'm not looking for a beautiful (or expensive!) solution just something I can put together to get some video from onboard an my boat. HD (I was thinking capturing what is happening in the cockpit is just as interesting as whats happening ahead of you for the most part... I'm not really a camera geek or a lifelong sailor (yet!) but I wonder if there's someone out there who knows a bit more in this field than me... Cheers, Tim Dobson [1] http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/247 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Google is my friend :-) http://www.stickypod.com/ On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: I clearly remember having seen an ad (ThinkGeek perhaps?) for a tripod mount with three large (2 or 3 inch) suction cups, designed for speedboats (!), claimed to be ideal for curved slick surfaces and to grip even better in wetter conditions. If I manage to find it I'll post a link :-) Sean On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Tim Dobson li...@tdobson.net wrote: Hey there, This isn't a common question I'd guess but here's a good a place to ask as any! :) So basically I've just acquired a small waterproof HD video camera and I'm looking for the best way to mount it onto my Laser EPS[1] sailing dinghy. It has a standard tripod mount so I was wondering about tying it on with desk tripod near the mast foot or something but I wondered if anyone had any prior experience or thoughts on how they'd do this. I'm not looking for a beautiful (or expensive!) solution just something I can put together to get some video from onboard an my boat. HD (I was thinking capturing what is happening in the cockpit is just as interesting as whats happening ahead of you for the most part... I'm not really a camera geek or a lifelong sailor (yet!) but I wonder if there's someone out there who knows a bit more in this field than me... Cheers, Tim Dobson [1] http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/247 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Sean DALY wrote: Google is my friend :-) http://www.stickypod.com/ Perhaps a bit overkill for what I want it for, but this is definitely *the* way to go if I want to do it properly! Wow, I'm sooo tempted... :-/ Don't know whether I should jump in or at what level I should jump in at.. haha Thanks anyway Sean! :D Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
Tech + sailing does the trick. Laser (classic) plus quite a keen cat sailor. Tacking this off the list as way off topic. ; - ) Gav Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, RG12 1BP, United Kingdom. -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 23 May 2009 21:46 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies Gavin Pearce wrote: Didn't know anyone here sailed! I should have guessed at least one of you cunning bunch did! I think there are several others on here that do too! :) Where you based, anywhere near the Dorset part of this world? I'm in theNorthwest, specifically Glossop! ;) Sorry not really that close to Dorset. I find any tech + sailing comibinations the best of both worlds! :) What do you sail? Tim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ __ Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, RG12 1BP, United Kingdom. This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ __ Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Grenville Place, Bracknell, RG12 1BP, United Kingdom. This outbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. __ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: RE: [backstage] video cameras + sailing dingies
I live in Poole :) Regards, Dave On 23 May 2009, 10:23 PM, Gavin Pearce gav...@tbs.uk.com wrote: Tech + sailing does the trick. Laser (classic) plus quite a keen cat sailor. Tacking this off the list as way off topic. ; - ) Gav Trinity Belmann Scott Limited t/a TBS. Registered in England , number 2261735, at Abbey House, Gre... Sent: 23 May 2009 21:46 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] video cameras + saili... Gavin Pearce wrote: Didn't know anyone here sailed! I should have guessed at least one of you cu... __ Trinity Belmann Scott Limited... Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bb...
