Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-18 Thread Richard P Edwards

Hi James,

I am looking forward to all these changes, I hope it will be great.
One quick question, regarding the iPlayer Radio is it possible on  
an update to make the volume control actually go down to zero? I can  
then watch the Magic Roundabout on Youtube instead of listening to  
the news... :-)

Mine's a pint of Dog-bolter or Abbott.
RichE

On 16 Jun 2008, at 18:48, James Cridland wrote:

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:

2008/6/13 James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 As the man in charge of the Coyopa project, which'll be fiddling  
with a lot

 of our streams,
You mean this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/03/ 
coyopa_takes_shape.shtml

?

Yep. It's in BH now. I saw it last week, warming up one of the  
apparatus rooms. And it's even working. Hopefully we'll switch  
stuff on within the next month. Some niggles to sort out still though.


 2. Flash streaming just works for most people, and as the TV  
iPlayer has

 shown, a tremendously popular way of consuming content.
Not on mobiles. How about an Ogg stream with Cortado[1] for mobiles
(or other people who dislike Flash).

Agreed. We have plans on mobile also, though any solution must  
just work. Yes, we're providing a ton of extra streams in  
different formats for wifi radios and the like to use; no, Ogg  
Vorbis is not one of them. I refer the gentleman to the answers I  
gave here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/03/ 
streaming_radio_online_your_co_1.shtml


Not sure whether our streaming will work on Gnash or not,  
incidentally. I'd think, for a while at least, it will.


 3. HTTP downloads are not possible
I think the idea was to stream over HTTP. (or something that is
similar enough to streaming that no one notices).

RTMP or RTSP is streaming. Nobody (using Flash) will notice it's  
any different to any other experience they have. Again, it must  
just work. HTTP streaming is less good for Content Restriction  
And Protection. (Again, sorry we have to put crp in our streams in  
this way, but we do.) (Yes, the abbreviation is intentional).


 I'm sorry we have to use it. But we have to use it.
Is there no a more open streaming protocol one could use?

Again, back to the Content Restriction And Protection issue; but  
also coupled with the knowledge that a typical user wants something  
that just works.


 5. A pop-up player will continue to be available in iPlayer  
when radio

 moves in.
Unfortunately there is not much the BBC can really do about stay on
top however. If the OS/Browser don't provide it then you're out of
luck. Some OSes let any window stay on top.

Yep, agreed. We can't provide stay on top with anything internet,  
without a software product, which people don't, generally,  
download. (Sweeping generalisation, but my experience).


If only browsers supported video[2] and audio tags, and if there
was actually some base codecs defined that would work on any browser.
(chicken/egg?)

Ye... to a point. There are some base codecs defined that work  
on any browser with Flash installed (ie virtually all of them); and  
that's the way that the world is going.


 Beer, anyone?
Are you buying? ;)

Nope. You? Mine's the guest ale.

//j






Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-16 Thread Steve Jolly

Andy wrote:

2. Flash streaming just works for most people, and as the TV iPlayer has
shown, a tremendously popular way of consuming content.

Not on mobiles. How about an Ogg stream with Cortado[1] for mobiles
(or other people who dislike Flash).


Cortado looks like a J2SE applet, not a J2ME midlet.  Is there a mobile 
version too?


S
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-16 Thread James Cridland
On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 2008/6/13 James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  As the man in charge of the Coyopa project, which'll be fiddling with a
 lot
  of our streams,
 You mean this: 
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/03/coyopa_takes_shape.shtml
 ?


Yep. It's in BH now. I saw it last week, warming up one of the apparatus
rooms. And it's even working. Hopefully we'll switch stuff on within the
next month. Some niggles to sort out still though.


  2. Flash streaming just works for most people, and as the TV iPlayer
 has
  shown, a tremendously popular way of consuming content.
 Not on mobiles. How about an Ogg stream with Cortado[1] for mobiles
 (or other people who dislike Flash).


Agreed. We have plans on mobile also, though any solution must just work.
Yes, we're providing a ton of extra streams in different formats for wifi
radios and the like to use; no, Ogg Vorbis is not one of them. I refer the
gentleman to the answers I gave here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/03/streaming_radio_online_your_co_1.shtml

Not sure whether our streaming will work on Gnash or not, incidentally. I'd
think, for a while at least, it will.

 3. HTTP downloads are not possible
 I think the idea was to stream over HTTP. (or something that is
 similar enough to streaming that no one notices).


RTMP or RTSP is streaming. Nobody (using Flash) will notice it's any
different to any other experience they have. Again, it must just work.
HTTP streaming is less good for Content Restriction And Protection. (Again,
sorry we have to put crp in our streams in this way, but we do.) (Yes, the
abbreviation is intentional).


  I'm sorry we have to use it. But we have to use it.
 Is there no a more open streaming protocol one could use?


Again, back to the Content Restriction And Protection issue; but also
coupled with the knowledge that a typical user wants something that just
works.

 5. A pop-up player will continue to be available in iPlayer when radio
  moves in.
 Unfortunately there is not much the BBC can really do about stay on
 top however. If the OS/Browser don't provide it then you're out of
 luck. Some OSes let any window stay on top.


Yep, agreed. We can't provide stay on top with anything internet, without
a software product, which people don't, generally, download. (Sweeping
generalisation, but my experience).


 If only browsers supported video[2] and audio tags, and if there
 was actually some base codecs defined that would work on any browser.
 (chicken/egg?)


Ye... to a point. There are some base codecs defined that work on any
browser with Flash installed (ie virtually all of them); and that's the way
that the world is going.


  Beer, anyone?
 Are you buying? ;)


Nope. You? Mine's the guest ale.

//j


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-15 Thread Andy
2008/6/13 James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 As the man in charge of the Coyopa project, which'll be fiddling with a lot
 of our streams,
You mean this: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/03/coyopa_takes_shape.shtml
?

 2. Flash streaming just works for most people, and as the TV iPlayer has
 shown, a tremendously popular way of consuming content.
Not on mobiles. How about an Ogg stream with Cortado[1] for mobiles
(or other people who dislike Flash).

 3. HTTP downloads are not possible
I think the idea was to stream over HTTP. (or something that is
similar enough to streaming that no one notices).

 I'm sorry we have to use it. But we have to use it.
Is there no a more open streaming protocol one could use?

 5. A pop-up player will continue to be available in iPlayer when radio
 moves in.
Unfortunately there is not much the BBC can really do about stay on
top however. If the OS/Browser don't provide it then you're out of
luck. Some OSes let any window stay on top.

If only browsers supported video[2] and audio tags, and if there
was actually some base codecs defined that would work on any browser.
(chicken/egg?)

 Beer, anyone?

Are you buying? ;)

Andy

[1] http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/
[2] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#video
-- 
No one reads the signature anyway.
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Brian Butterworth
2008/6/13 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
  2008/6/12 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   
What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?
  
   Er, free software ones.
 
 
  http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
 
  has
 
  Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
  98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X

 So? They still aren't free.


They don't cost anything at all to the consumer.  That's free is the
prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean free-software, is much less
free.

Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't it?




-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Vladimir Harman
been using linux on my pc for years and have not have any problems playin flash 
stuff on it...no prob at all. gnash is also usable but does not play the latest 
flash applications or so...


--- On Fri, 6/13/08, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
 Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 8:54 AM
 2008/6/13 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Fred Phillips
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian
 Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Dogsbody
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 What strange install allows RealPlaer
 but not Flash?
   
Er, free software ones.
  
  
  
 http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
  
   has
  
   Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions
 as well as Windows
   98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X
 
  So? They still aren't free.
 
 
 They don't cost anything at all to the consumer. 
 That's free is the
 prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean
 free-software, is much less
 free.
 
 Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you
 mean, isn't it?
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 
 Brian Butterworth
 
 http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and
 switchover advice,
 since 2002


  
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Gavin Pearce
I agree with Brian, Real-player is a lot less 'free' in the terms you're
thinking than Flash is.
You don't get upgrade to plus announcements every five minutes for
starters in Flash!
 
However also agree with Christopher, Flash isn't anywhere near as supported
on other platforms as Adobe like to make out.

Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom 
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138 
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin 
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/ http://www.tbs.uk.com/ 

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459. 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 07:55
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!



2008/6/13 Fred Phillips  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :


On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Fred Phillips  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

  On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Dogsbody  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :
  
   What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?
 
  Er, free software ones.


 http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/ 

 has

 Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X


So? They still aren't free.


They don't cost anything at all to the consumer.  That's free is the
prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean free-software, is much less
free.

Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't it?
 



-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv http://www.ukfree.tv  - independent digital
television and switchover advice, since 2002 



This message has been scanned for viruses by
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ Viatel MailControl, a service from
http://www.viatel.com/ Viatel.



RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Andrew Bowden
You need the Linux version of Real Player.  Much nicer and no nagging!
Built on the open source Helix Player.
 
Of course you would also need to change your operating system ;)
 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gavin Pearce
Sent: 13 June 2008 09:26
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!


I agree with Brian, Real-player is a lot less 'free' in the
terms you're thinking than Flash is.
You don't get upgrade to plus announcements every five minutes
for starters in Flash!
 
However also agree with Christopher, Flash isn't anywhere near
as supported on other platforms as Adobe like to make out.

Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United
Kingdom 
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax:
+44 (0) 1344 427138 
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype:
tbs.gavin 
www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com/

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International
Limited. Registered in England, company number 2079459. 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 07:55
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!



2008/6/13 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth
wrote:
 2008/6/12 Fred Phillips
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian
Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
   What strange install allows RealPlaer but
not Flash?
 
  Er, free software ones.



http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/

 has

 Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX
versions as well as Windows
 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X


So? They still aren't free.


They don't cost anything at all to the consumer.  That's
free is the prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean
free-software, is much less free.

Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't
it?
 



-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television
and switchover advice, since 2002 



This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel
MailControl http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .



This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .



RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Gavin Pearce
Not had a huge experience of Linux GUIs have to admit, mainly a command line
guy, though randomly I am putting Ubuntu on me old Laptop tonight (doesn't
that sound like a cool Friday evening out!), so shall give it a whirl and
let you know.;-)

Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom 
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138 
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin 
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/ http://www.tbs.uk.com/ 

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459. 

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Bowden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 09:42
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!


You need the Linux version of Real Player.  Much nicer and no nagging!
Built on the open source Helix Player.
 
Of course you would also need to change your operating system ;)
 


  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gavin Pearce
Sent: 13 June 2008 09:26
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!


I agree with Brian, Real-player is a lot less 'free' in the terms you're
thinking than Flash is.
You don't get upgrade to plus announcements every five minutes for
starters in Flash!
 
However also agree with Christopher, Flash isn't anywhere near as supported
on other platforms as Adobe like to make out.

Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom 
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138 
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin 
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/ http://www.tbs.uk.com/ 

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459. 

-Original Message-
From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 07:55
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!



2008/6/13 Fred Phillips  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :


On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Fred Phillips  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

  On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Dogsbody  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :
  
   What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?
 
  Er, free software ones.


 http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/ 

 has

 Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X


So? They still aren't free.


They don't cost anything at all to the consumer.  That's free is the
prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean free-software, is much less
free.

Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't it?
 



-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv http://www.ukfree.tv  - independent digital
television and switchover advice, since 2002 



This message has been scanned for viruses by
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ Viatel MailControl, a service from
http://www.viatel.com/ Viatel.



This message has been scanned for viruses by
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ Viatel MailControl, a service from
http://www.viatel.com/ Viatel.



This message has been scanned for viruses by
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ Viatel MailControl, a service from
http://www.viatel.com/ Viatel.



RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread zen16083
Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it
be told to stay on top of other windows … both features that I for one use a
lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gavin Pearce
Sent: 13 June 2008 09:44
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

Not had a huge experience of Linux GUIs have to admit, mainly a command line
guy, though randomly I am putting Ubuntu on me old Laptop tonight (doesn't
that sound like a cool Friday evening out!), so shall give it a whirl and
let you know.;-)
Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459.
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Bowden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 09:42
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
You need the Linux version of Real Player.  Much nicer and no nagging!
Built on the open source Helix Player.

Of course you would also need to change your operating system ;)




  _

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gavin Pearce
Sent: 13 June 2008 09:26
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
I agree with Brian, Real-player is a lot less 'free' in the terms you're
thinking than Flash is.
You don't get upgrade to plus announcements every five minutes for
starters in Flash!

However also agree with Christopher, Flash isn't anywhere near as supported
on other platforms as Adobe like to make out.
Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459.
-Original Message-
From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 07:55
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008/6/13 Fred Phillips  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :


On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Fred Phillips  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

  On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Dogsbody  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :
  
   What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?
 
  Er, free software ones.


 http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/

 has

 Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X
So? They still aren't free.

They don't cost anything at all to the consumer.  That's free is the
prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean free-software, is much less
free.

Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't it?




--

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002
This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .

This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .

This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .

This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Adam

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and 
can it be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that 
I for one use a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.


 

I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to play 
with creating my own AIR application yet.


Adam



RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Gavin Pearce
It can be done in Windows, not by standard you have a point, but with other
applications.

Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom 
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138 
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin 
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/ http://www.tbs.uk.com/ 

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459. 

-Original Message-
From: Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:42
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!


[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote: 

Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it
be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one use
a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.

!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]--

I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to play with
creating my own AIR application yet.

Adam





This message has been scanned for viruses by
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ Viatel MailControl, a service from
http://www.viatel.com/ Viatel.



Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Alia Sheikh

Beat me to it steve:)
We have some code that allows you to author id3v2 tags in mp3s to 
indicate chapters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/opensource/projects/chapter_tool/
and some classes that read these tags out of mp3s enhanced in this way.  
Currently written in Actionscript, as the demo player is Flash based, 
but no reason you couldn't port if you wanted to. 
Would this be of any interest?

Alia



Steve Jolly wrote:

Tom Hannen wrote:

I guess all the consituent parts exist already - I was thinking more
of an app that would make it easy for you to skip items whilst
cooking, or washing up, or in the car etc.

If you have a CD player in the kitchen, it is very easy to skip to the
next track - you stop what you're doing for a second, and hit one
button.  The same isn't true of trying to skip through items on the
today programme - stare at the screen, grab the mouse, choose from a
number of links, and click on one.

Hit the space bar to hear the next item would be a nice feature.  I'm
not saying it should be part of the today website, just that if I had
any programming skills whatsoever, I'd like to make it!


I wonder if segmented MP3 podcasts would be an elegant way to enable 
this functionality?


S

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, 
please visit 
http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread zen16083
Anything is possible, of course, but people want plain simple easy things
that work the way they expect them to work. Flash embedded BBC content isn’t
really user friendly… I think. ;-)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gavin Pearce
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:52
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

It can be done in Windows, not by standard you have a point, but with other
applications.
Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin
www.tbs.uk.com  http://www.tbs.uk.com/

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459.
-Original Message-
From: Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:42
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it
be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one use
a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.
!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]--
I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to play with
creating my own AIR application yet.

Adam



This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .

This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Jonathan Tweed
Surely the point is that flash embedded content is a plain, simple,  
easy thing that works. That makes it more user friendly than before.


Cheers
Jonathan

On 13 Jun 2008, at 12:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Anything is possible, of course, but people want plain simple easy  
things that work the way they expect them to work. Flash embedded  
BBC content isn’t really user friendly… I think. ;-)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
]On Behalf Of Gavin Pearce

Sent: 13 June 2008 11:52
To: 'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk'
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

It can be done in Windows, not by standard you have a point, but  
with other applications.

Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United  
Kingdom
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44  
(0) 1344 427138
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype:  
tbs.gavin

www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com/

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.  
Registered in England, company number 2079459.


-Original Message-
From: Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:42
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar,  
and can it be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features  
that I for one use a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.

!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]--
I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to  
play with creating my own AIR application yet.


Adam


This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl, a  
service from Viatel.



This message has been scanned for viruses by Viatel MailControl, a  
service from Viatel.






RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread zen16083
I’d have to disagree. Not if it can’t easily be reduced to a controllable
item on the task bar, and not if it can’t be told to stay conveniently on
top of other windows. Having to have IE/FF open (with their physical screen
size) to watch something in flash is just a nuisance especially if you can’t
force them to stay on top of other windows.

Also, it is very easy to accidentally close IE/FF and lose a flash prog,
whereas WMP and RP are much easier to set and forget as you are usually only
using them for one thing at one time, whereas web browsers are used for
multiple things making it easy to forget what is or isn’t being used at any
one time. If I follow any BBC content I always use standalone WMP or RP
because I have got fed up of closing FF and losing embedded players. My bad,
but I’m pretty sure other people have the same experience.


Cheers


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Tweed
Sent: 13 June 2008 14:11
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

Surely the point is that flash embedded content is a plain, simple, easy
thing that works. That makes it more user friendly than before.

Cheers
Jonathan

On 13 Jun 2008, at 12:08,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



Anything is possible, of course, but people want plain simple easy things
that work the way they expect them to work. Flash embedded BBC content isn’t
really user friendly… I think. ;-)


-Original Message-
From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gavin Pearce
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:52
To:  'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk mailto:'backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk '
Subject: RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

It can be done in Windows, not by standard you have a point, but with other
applications.
Gavin Pearce | Junior Web Developer | TBS
The Columbia Centre, Market Street, Bracknell, RG12 1JG, United Kingdom
Direct: +44 (0) 1344 403488 | Office: +44 (0) 1344 306011 | Fax: +44 (0)
1344 427138
MSN:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  |
Yahoo: pearce.gavin | Skype: tbs.gavin
www.tbs.uk.com http://www.tbs.uk.com   http://www.tbs.uk.com/

TBS is a trading name of Technology Services International Limited.
Registered in England, company number 2079459.
-Original Message-
From: Adam [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 June 2008 11:42
To:  backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk mailto:backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it
be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one use
a lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.
!--[if !supportEmptyParas]-- !--[endif]--
I think this can be done using AIR, but i haven't had a chance to play with
creating my own AIR application yet.

Adam




This message has been scanned for viruses by  Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from  Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .

This message has been scanned for viruses by  Viatel MailControl
http://viatel.mailcontrol.com/ , a service from  Viatel
http://www.viatel.com/ .



RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Christopher Woods
 

Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it
be told to stay on top of other windows . both features that I for one use a
lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well. 
Or, if you like consolidation, just install Media Player Classic. (via
RealAlternative if you want out-of-the-box RMV/RA support :) I use MPC and
WMP, sometimes WMP just manages to decode less intensively but usually it's
just MPC combined with a recent ffdshow-tryout for my day to day media
playback. Far outstrips VLC's performance.
 
To be honest, I don't know why the Beeb didn't ever recommend
RealAlternative for playing back Real streams! It's pretty idiot-proof and
you get none of the nags. :)


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Paul Battley
2008/6/13 Jonathan Tweed [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Surely the point is that flash embedded content is a plain, simple, easy
 thing that works. That makes it more user friendly than before.

It looks like the audio data's just MP3; it would be even more user
friendly if it just used HTTP instead of obfuscating it with a
proprietary protocol (RTMP). Then you wouldn't need Flash at all,
although it does make it easier to click and listen in a web page.

(Worried about people 'stealing' the audio? Don't be. I and other
people have been merrily downloading Real streams for years. It's
better quality if you grab it straight off air, though. My radio does
that, by the way.)

Paul.
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Tom Hannen
An option for the iplayer to pop-out to an always on top widow,
would be lovely actually - I would't want it all the time, but for
people who watch whilst using their computer, it would be much easier
than re-opening the same tab in a new window, then resizing and
scrolling it around until it looked right.

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Christopher Woods
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can it
 be told to stay on top of other windows … both features that I for one use a
 lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.

 Or, if you like consolidation, just install Media Player Classic. (via
 RealAlternative if you want out-of-the-box RMV/RA support :) I use MPC and
 WMP, sometimes WMP just manages to decode less intensively but usually it's
 just MPC combined with a recent ffdshow-tryout for my day to day media
 playback. Far outstrips VLC's performance.



 To be honest, I don't know why the Beeb didn't ever recommend
 RealAlternative for playing back Real streams! It's pretty idiot-proof and
 you get none of the nags. :)

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread zen16083

I'd second that ...


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Hannen
Sent: 13 June 2008 15:46
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

An option for the iplayer to pop-out to an always on top widow,
would be lovely actually - I would't want it all the time, but for
people who watch whilst using their computer, it would be much easier
than re-opening the same tab in a new window, then resizing and
scrolling it around until it looked right.

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Christopher Woods
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Can Flash be reduced to a controllable toolbar on your start bar, and can
it
 be told to stay on top of other windows ... both features that I for one
use a
 lot with WMP and (OMG) RP as well.

 Or, if you like consolidation, just install Media Player Classic. (via
 RealAlternative if you want out-of-the-box RMV/RA support :) I use MPC and
 WMP, sometimes WMP just manages to decode less intensively but usually
it's
 just MPC combined with a recent ffdshow-tryout for my day to day media
 playback. Far outstrips VLC's performance.



 To be honest, I don't know why the Beeb didn't ever recommend
 RealAlternative for playing back Real streams! It's pretty idiot-proof and
 you get none of the nags. :)

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
Unofficial list archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Fred Phillips
On Fri Jun 13 08:54:46 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/13 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?
   
Er, free software ones.
  
  
   http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
  
   has
  
   Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
   98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X
 
  So? They still aren't free.
 
 
 They don't cost anything at all to the consumer.  That's free is the
 prtacicable sense.  RealPlayer is, if you mean free-software, is much less
 free.
 
 Anyway, Flash is now free in the sense you mean, isn't it?

I mean free as in freedom
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html, in which case neither
Flash nor RealPlayer are free. But I can still play Real streams using
free software.

Fred
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Adam Sampson
Paul Battley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 It looks like the audio data's just MP3; it would be even more user
 friendly if it just used HTTP instead of obfuscating it with a
 proprietary protocol (RTMP).

The obvious approach here would be to have a play with standalone MP3
player link, just like the existing RealMedia-based thing does.

-- 
Adam Sampson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://offog.org/
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Brian Butterworth
This one on the Guardian site has just such a link, and also a podcast it
button too.

2008/6/13 Adam Sampson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Paul Battley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It looks like the audio data's just MP3; it would be even more user
  friendly if it just used HTTP instead of obfuscating it with a
  proprietary protocol (RTMP).

 The obvious approach here would be to have a play with standalone MP3
 player link, just like the existing RealMedia-based thing does.

 --
 Adam Sampson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://offog.org/
 -
 Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
 visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
  Unofficial list archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/




-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread James Cridland
Enjoying this thread so far.

As the man in charge of the Coyopa project, which'll be fiddling with a lot
of our streams, could I pop in and make the following points (given you know
we're making changes later this year)...

1. We are not removing internet-radio-compatible streams. Panic not.
2. Flash streaming just works for most people, and as the TV iPlayer has
shown, a tremendously popular way of consuming content.
3. HTTP downloads are not possible: we don't own most of the content. That's
why you've spotted RTMP being used - it's a form of non-invasive Content
Restriction And Protection. I'm sorry we have to use it. But we have to use
it.
4. In the minority of cases where HTTP downloads are possible, I would like
to make those available for more programmes than just the podcasts.
5. A pop-up player will continue to be available in iPlayer when radio
moves in.

I love the idea of segmenting stories within the Today programme, and I've
ensured that the right people see that idea.

Good.

(grin)

Beer, anyone?


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Tom Hannen
That's great news!

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:43 PM, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Enjoying this thread so far.

 As the man in charge of the Coyopa project, which'll be fiddling with a lot
 of our streams, could I pop in and make the following points (given you know
 we're making changes later this year)...

 1. We are not removing internet-radio-compatible streams. Panic not.
 2. Flash streaming just works for most people, and as the TV iPlayer has
 shown, a tremendously popular way of consuming content.
 3. HTTP downloads are not possible: we don't own most of the content. That's
 why you've spotted RTMP being used - it's a form of non-invasive Content
 Restriction And Protection. I'm sorry we have to use it. But we have to use
 it.
 4. In the minority of cases where HTTP downloads are possible, I would like
 to make those available for more programmes than just the podcasts.
 5. A pop-up player will continue to be available in iPlayer when radio
 moves in.

 I love the idea of segmenting stories within the Today programme, and I've
 ensured that the right people see that idea.

 Good.

 (grin)

 Beer, anyone?


-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-13 Thread Christopher Woods
 An option for the iplayer to pop-out to an always on top 
 widow, would be lovely actually - I would't want it all the 
 time, but for people who watch whilst using their computer, 
 it would be much easier than re-opening the same tab in a new 
 window, then resizing and scrolling it around until it looked right.


My housemate's been watching a lot of iPlayer stuff recently (our TV broke
and she's going barmy without telly!) She also watches in a browser window
so she can do other stuff (MSN etc).

I quizzed her on what she'd like in terms of screen size, because she
complains the video's too small (too much clutter around it if you don't go
fullscreen) - why not offer a feature like ITV's Brightcove player offers,
where you can click a button and it maximises the video window inside a
frame - but doesn't jump to fullscreen? It'd be great for people who don't
want to always go to fullscreen, if the video could enlarge over the top of
the rest of the interface, and then just shrink back when you hit the button
again / hit escape.


That said, she has a 4:3 display on her laptop, and she also expressed a
desire to be able to pan  scan the widescreen video so she can fill more of
her screen - she doesn't care that she's missing the sides as long as she
can see the main action.


Some people just don't /know/ what they want!


But yes, anyway, I hardly think she's alone in her wishes - if the ability
to pseudo-fullscreen the video (hide interface except for 'shrink' button),
keeping the rest of browser and desktop visible though so you can multitask
without having to fullscreen, jump back, fullscreen again all the time,
that'd be a smashing addition. And as well, a button to automatically pan 
scan the video to the centre of the stream would be a bit of a pain to sort
out, but I think people with older monitors might use it. I guess not
everybody always likes digital black and to watch programmes the way the
director intended :(



Final question - when's MP4 streaming properly coming to the PC platform,
then? ;)

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread D P Ingram

On 12 jun 2008, at 08.35, Brian Butterworth wrote:


What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?



Internet radios.. (standalone devices) like the Acoustic Energy range...





¦ D P Ingram ¦ Ab Ingram Oy ¦
¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
¦
¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839  
(UK) ¦

¦ extn 8001
¦









Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread Dogsbody



Ditto!  I can no longer listen to my favourite shows at all now!  :-(

Why?  This change effects only *listen again* for one show.  This 
suggests to me that you are comlaining about something you don't use.


Sorry, I worded that badly, I meant if this was rolled out site wide.


What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?


Most of my Nokia mobile phones past and present.

Dan
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread Brian Butterworth
2008/6/12 D P Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On 12 jun 2008, at 08.35, Brian Butterworth wrote:

 What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?



 Internet radios.. (standalone devices) like the Acoustic Energy range...


Not much of an Internet Radio if it can't play WMA streams.  Probably should
take it back!







 ¦ D P Ingram ¦ Ab Ingram Oy ¦
 ¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
 ¦
 ¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839 (UK) ¦
 ¦ extn 8001
 ¦










-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread D P Ingram

On 12 jun 2008, at 11.11, Brian Butterworth wrote:
Internet radios.. (standalone devices) like the Acoustic Energy  
range...


Not much of an Internet Radio if it can't play WMA streams.   
Probably should take it back!



My understanding from reading comments elsewhere was that they have  
problems with Flash loaders as they do strange things to the streams  
(?dynamically changing addresses etc) rather than the more  
conventional fixed wma/rm feeds.





¦ D P Ingram ¦ Ab Ingram Oy ¦
¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
¦
¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839  
(UK) ¦

¦ extn 8001
¦









Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread Fred Phillips
On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?

Er, free software ones.

Fred
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread Brian Butterworth
2008/6/12 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
  2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?

 Er, free software ones.


http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/

has

Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X





 Fred
 -
 Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
 visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
  Unofficial list archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/




-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002


RE: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread Christopher Woods
 



http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/

has

Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X 
 

Unfortunately the PPC version is HORRIBLY outdated (Flash Player 7!) and it
doesn't work in any web pages at all if ANYTHING aside from the standard
object embed code is used... Which people are using less and less these days
(to avoid the 'hit space to activate' issue).
 
Oh, plus it doesn't work properly with anything like the most recent Flash
features (which are the features everybody uses!) And it doesn't work in
Opera Mobile... Or NetFront 3.5... Or anything aside from Pocket IE. All in
all, pretty useless.


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-12 Thread Fred Phillips
On Thu Jun 12 19:45:49 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 2008/6/12 Fred Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
  On Thu Jun 12 07:35:20 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
   2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  
   What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?
 
  Er, free software ones.
 
 
 http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/alternates/
 
 has
 
 Linux x86, Solaris, Pocket PC and HP-UX versions as well as Windows
 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista and MacOS/X

So? They still aren’t free.
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


[backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Brian Butterworth
Today has a new page, I note:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm

(Is that a composite photo?)

Glad to see you don't need RealPlayer any more to listen again, it uses
Flash instead.


Brian


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread D P Ingram
Hopefully the BBC will keep things like RM for use on internet radios  
as IME they don't like flash.


But for web browsing I agree, flash is nicer than RM!

Darren
On 11 jun 2008, at 10.31, Brian Butterworth wrote:


Today has a new page, I note:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm

(Is that a composite photo?)



¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
¦
¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839  
(UK) ¦

¦ extn 8001
¦









Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Tom Hannen
I guess all the consituent parts exist already - I was thinking more
of an app that would make it easy for you to skip items whilst
cooking, or washing up, or in the car etc.

If you have a CD player in the kitchen, it is very easy to skip to the
next track - you stop what you're doing for a second, and hit one
button.  The same isn't true of trying to skip through items on the
today programme - stare at the screen, grab the mouse, choose from a
number of links, and click on one.

Hit the space bar to hear the next item would be a nice feature.  I'm
not saying it should be part of the today website, just that if I had
any programming skills whatsoever, I'd like to make it!

Tom

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:26 AM, Brian Butterworth
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2008/6/11 Tom Hannen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I've been thinking about a nice idea for a Today programme web-app.
 When clicked, it would start playing the most recent Today programme
 (from 6:30am or whenever it starts now), and then whenever you hear an
 item that is boring you, you could hit a button / space bar / wiimote
 / etc, and you would be skipped on to the next item in the running
 order.  It would be great for late-risers, and statistics from it
 might make interesting reading...

 It starts at 6am!  It would be nice to have all the audio clips for the day
 on

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7447000/7447573.stm

 so you could do that.


 You could even expand it to give you a choice when they do the split
 for Yesterday in Parliament, or the cricket.

 That bit is here already...

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/tip/


 Tom


 On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:42 AM, D P Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hopefully the BBC will keep things like RM for use on internet radios as
  IME
  they don't like flash.
  But for web browsing I agree, flash is nicer than RM!
  Darren
  On 11 jun 2008, at 10.31, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 
  Today has a new page, I note:
 
 
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm
 
  (Is that a composite photo?)
 
  ¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
  ¦
  ¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839 (UK)
  ¦
  ¦ extn 8001
  ¦
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 -
 Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
 visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
  Unofficial list archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/



 --
 Please email me back if you need any more help.

 Brian Butterworth

 http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
 since 2002

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Brian Butterworth
2008/6/11 Tom Hannen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I've been thinking about a nice idea for a Today programme web-app.
 When clicked, it would start playing the most recent Today programme
 (from 6:30am or whenever it starts now), and then whenever you hear an
 item that is boring you, you could hit a button / space bar / wiimote
 / etc, and you would be skipped on to the next item in the running
 order.  It would be great for late-risers, and statistics from it
 might make interesting reading...


It starts at 6am!  It would be nice to have all the audio clips for the day
on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7447000/7447573.stm

so you could do that.




 You could even expand it to give you a choice when they do the split
 for Yesterday in Parliament, or the cricket.


That bit is here already...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/podcasts/tip/




 Tom


 On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:42 AM, D P Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hopefully the BBC will keep things like RM for use on internet radios as
 IME
  they don't like flash.
  But for web browsing I agree, flash is nicer than RM!
  Darren
  On 11 jun 2008, at 10.31, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 
  Today has a new page, I note:
 
 
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm
 
  (Is that a composite photo?)
 
  ¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
  ¦
  ¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839 (UK) ¦
  ¦ extn 8001
  ¦
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 -
 Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
 visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
  Unofficial list archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/




-- 
Please email me back if you need any more help.

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Tom Hannen
I've been thinking about a nice idea for a Today programme web-app.
When clicked, it would start playing the most recent Today programme
(from 6:30am or whenever it starts now), and then whenever you hear an
item that is boring you, you could hit a button / space bar / wiimote
/ etc, and you would be skipped on to the next item in the running
order.  It would be great for late-risers, and statistics from it
might make interesting reading...

You could even expand it to give you a choice when they do the split
for Yesterday in Parliament, or the cricket.

Tom


On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:42 AM, D P Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hopefully the BBC will keep things like RM for use on internet radios as IME
 they don't like flash.
 But for web browsing I agree, flash is nicer than RM!
 Darren
 On 11 jun 2008, at 10.31, Brian Butterworth wrote:

 Today has a new page, I note:


 http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/default.stm

 (Is that a composite photo?)

 ¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
 ¦
 ¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839 (UK) ¦
 ¦ extn 8001
 ¦








-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Fred Phillips
On Wed Jun 11 09:31:27 2008, Brian Butterworth wrote:
 Glad to see you don't need RealPlayer any more to listen again, it uses
 Flash instead.

Um, thanks for making internet radio _completely_ unavailable to me.

- Fred
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread D P Ingram
Now **that** would be nice. I find myself with various podcasts often  
thinking about something else when a less than interesting bit comes  
along !


Darren

On 11 jun 2008, at 13.07, Tom Hannen wrote:


item that is boring you, you could hit a button / space bar / wiimote
/ etc, and you would be skipped on to the next item in the running





¦ D P Ingram ¦ Ab Ingram Oy ¦
¦ darren at ingram.fi ¦  www.ingram.fi ¦
¦
¦ +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ¦ +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ¦ +44 203 014 3839  
(UK) ¦

¦ extn 8001
¦









Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Steve Jolly

Tom Hannen wrote:

I guess all the consituent parts exist already - I was thinking more
of an app that would make it easy for you to skip items whilst
cooking, or washing up, or in the car etc.

If you have a CD player in the kitchen, it is very easy to skip to the
next track - you stop what you're doing for a second, and hit one
button.  The same isn't true of trying to skip through items on the
today programme - stare at the screen, grab the mouse, choose from a
number of links, and click on one.

Hit the space bar to hear the next item would be a nice feature.  I'm
not saying it should be part of the today website, just that if I had
any programming skills whatsoever, I'd like to make it!


I wonder if segmented MP3 podcasts would be an elegant way to enable 
this functionality?


S

-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Dogsbody



Glad to see you don't need RealPlayer any more to listen again, it uses
Flash instead.


Um, thanks for making internet radio _completely_ unavailable to me.


Ditto!  I can no longer listen to my favourite shows at all now!  :-(

Dan
-
Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/


Re: [backstage] RealPlayer banished Toady!

2008-06-11 Thread Brian Butterworth
2008/6/12 Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


  Glad to see you don't need RealPlayer any more to listen again, it uses
 Flash instead.


 Um, thanks for making internet radio _completely_ unavailable to me.


 Ditto!  I can no longer listen to my favourite shows at all now!  :-(


Why?  This change effects only *listen again* for one show.  This suggests
to me that you are comlaining about something you don't use.

What strange install allows RealPlaer but not Flash?




 Dan

 -
 Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
 visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
  Unofficial list archive:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/




-- 


Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002