RE: [backstage] News Images

2005-08-11 Thread David Tattersall

I just open the low graphics version and grab any URLs from 
there - I can then store the URLs and appropriate keywords. The images are then 
displayed as search results.


[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Duncan 
BarclaySent: 10 August 2005 9:35To: Re: [backstage] News 
No, and I doubt you would be allowed 
to use the images even if there was.Ben has quite an interesting post 
about the use of images on Google News and other sides using the Google News RSS 
feed on his blog, at 
, which does explain some of the problems related to using the 
images.Hope that helps,DuncanGraeme 
Mulvaney wrote: 
  there a feedassociating imageswith news items knocking about 
  somewhere ?
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RE: [backstage] News Images

2005-08-11 Thread Ben Metcalfe
Title: Message

There have been a 
number of posts recently about using photos that appear on the BBC News website, 
including the one below.

cancompletely understand why bringing images from news stories into your 
prototypes is a compelling idea. Unfortunately it's not something the BBC 
is able to make available on backstage nor can it condone screen scraping of 
images from the news site.

However rather than 
being all stern and simply telling you "Hey, don't do that", I'd like to explain 
to you the reasoning behindall of this. My hope is that, armed with 
this information, you guys will choose not to use images because you can 
empathise with our position rather than because 'we told you not 

The first point to 
make is that in almost all cases the BBC does not own the photos we make 
available on the BBC News site. I think it's fair to say that in a lot of 
cases many people think we do own the photos, and therefore off the back 
ofbackstageput 2 and 2 together and assume that the pictures are 
fair game and part of "Open BBC". Unfortunately that's simply not the 

Many would agree 
that it would simply not be a sensible use of licence payers money to have 
hundreds of photographers working for us roving the country, and indeed the 
world, ready to take photographs.

So like practically 
all other news providers we licence the use photos from the photographic 
agencies for use on the website. These providers include AP, Reuters - 
although there are many others we use too. They have a constant churn of 
photos coming in from their photographers and "paparazzi". If you want to 
see what such a feed looks like, check out the live Yahoo! news picture 
is fairly representative of what's current on the "picture 

BBC licences the 
right to reproducethese pictures on the BBC website - and only the BBC 
website. It does not have the right to redistribute them to third parties, 
such as including them in RSS feeds. This is why we are unable to make the 
photos available to you on backstage at this time.

redistribution rights would no doubt be very expensive and and it's questionable 
whether the agencies would even agree to it. Their business model is that 
they distribute the photos to news providers and other interested parties. 
Having redistribution rights ourselves would turn that model on it's 

As you will know, 
I'm a big champion for "open media" both in the BBC and outside the BBC. 
Butone of the responsibilities of being involved withsuch a concept 
is to respect copyright when copyright exists. And by being involved in 
backstage, you should all also feel valued members and pioneers of the open 
media community.

You may not agree 
with a given licence restriction, or feel that it is stifling your creativity, 
but it's simply not right to ignore the licences asset owners place upon their 
work - regardless of the type of content and the type of licence being 

If you want to 
convince somebody that they should think differently, it is far more powerful to 
demonstrate the value they are missing by using existing Open/Creative 
Commons/similar work rather than ripping off their content and hoping they will 
like it. The chances are they won't, and invariably may undermine both 
your work and in their eyes the open media concept in 

Closer to home,serious licence infringements in your 
prototypes could undermine the work we are trying to do at the BBC with, and our other Open BBC projects.

In addition to 
being an advocate for the BBC externally to you guys, internally I'm an advocate 
for the work you are all doing and your aspirations generally. I use the 
above method to show content stakeholders around the BBC real examples of where 
you are adding new value to BBC content byremixing other providers content 
into your prototypes -in an effort to demonstrate the benefits to the BBC 
in releasing our equivalent content on backstage. The more you build and 
demonstrate value, the more content feeds and apis I can get released to 
you. The same conceptshould work on a larger scale, when dealing 
with rights holders outside the BBC. But it all needs to happen in a 
positive and respectful way if it is going to work!

This is a very long 
process which we're just at the beginning off, but as someone once said: even 
the longest journey begins with a single step.

I know this has 
been a long email, so thanks for reading.


  -Original Message-From: 
  Behalf Of David TattersallSent: 11 August 2005 
  17:05To: RE: 
  [backstage] News Images
  I just open the low graphics version and grab any URLs 
  from there - I can then store the URLs and appropriate keywords. The images 
  are then displayed as search