Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-11 Thread Matt Barber
What about all the jobs that people have when they develop software that is paid for and licensed? If the switch to free software were to suddenly happen, would these people find themselves out of work? This isn't a stab at anybody, it's just an observation that I'd like to put in there. And

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-11 Thread Steffan Davies
Matt Barber m...@progressive.org.uk wrote at 13:10 on 2009-02-11: What about all the jobs that people have when they develop software that is paid for and licensed? If the switch to free software were to suddenly happen, would these people find themselves out of work? This isn't a stab at

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-11 Thread Zen
I can't see the ed sector taking on free software in any great volume in the near future ... the issues around support and compatibility (with workplaces and what parents have at home) are just too great. If there was to be a shift away from MS/Windows, I think it is more likely to be in

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-11 Thread Neil Aberdeen
Under BSF SUN now runs Bradford local authority schools IT From http://blogs.sun.com/joehartley/entry/back_to_a_new_school The computers were not conventional PCs, but _Sun Ray thin clients http://www.sun.com/sunray/index.jsp%20_. Sun Ray clients enable virtualized desktop sessions to run on a

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-11 Thread Rich Vazquez
I'm glad you pointed this out. There are more obviously. Why is this discussion operating like there aren't entire governments, schools and nations already moving to or running open source? Andalusia (Guadlinex), Extremadura (gnuLinEx), Madrid (MAX) in Spain have had their own distributions for

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-11 Thread Sean DALY
For the past two years, the Ile-de-France region which includes Paris has distributed 200,000 USB keys with free open source software to students of 450 secondary schools each September. The gcompris project (= j'ai compris = I understood) for young students is available for all platforms in over

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Alun Rowe
³Microsoft offers the OS and Office at extremely competitive prices to schools. I have heard it quoted as being around £5 per license for Office.² It is cheaper but not that cheap... For example: MS Office single license = £43 + £25 Software assurance Windows Server Standard (Single License)

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Fearghas McKay
On 10 Feb 2009, at 09:23, Alun Rowe wrote: “Microsoft offers the OS and Office at extremely competitive prices to schools. I have heard it quoted as being around £5 per license for Office.” It is cheaper but not that cheap... At Glasgow University it used to be nearly that cheap -

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Alun Rowe
I was basing it on purchasing a single copy. Purchasing a site wide license for say 500 desktops would see significant savings. The Home/Student edition is cheaper but that's not for schools to use, it's for the students to have on their own laptops which they aren't allowed to connect to the

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Phil Whitehouse
The cost of school licences is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of lifetime subscription. Microsoft may be many things, but they aren't stupid..! Phil On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Fearghas McKay fm-li...@st-kilda.orgwrote: On 10 Feb 2009, at 09:23, Alun Rowe wrote: Microsoft

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Fearghas McKay
On 10 Feb 2009, at 09:51, Alun Rowe wrote: I was basing it on purchasing a single copy. Purchasing a site wide license for say 500 desktops would see significant savings. Which was Adam's point. The Home/Student edition is cheaper but that's not for schools to use, it's for the

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Alun Rowe
On 10/02/2009 10:24, Fearghas McKay fm-li...@st-kilda.org wrote: I was basing it on purchasing a single copy. Purchasing a site wide license for say 500 desktops would see significant savings. Which was Adam's point. Indeed, the figures I included on the first email were just an

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Lee Stone
If the home/school copy works out at £33 each, you might as well look at purchasing from www.theultimatesteal.com Get office ultimate 2007 for £38.95 - I believe this is the second year they've done it now as I took advantage of it last year as a student. It certainly makes it a lot more

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Fearghas McKay
On 10 Feb 2009, at 10:41, Lee Stone wrote: Get office ultimate 2007 for £38.95 - I believe this is the second year they've done it now as I took advantage of it last year as a student. It certainly makes it a lot more affordable. That would mean running Windaes and me having to support it

RE: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Gareth Davis
Something not being discussed, is that there can be any amount of take up of open source platforms within a school - you don't have to go 100%. Way back in my sixth form days (1996) between the Head of Learning Resources, a former student who was now at university and myself - we replaced the

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Neil Aberdeen
Interesting as all these discussions are schools will have what's given to them and supported under BSF monoploy IT provision (see http://www.edugeek.net/wiki/index.php/List_of_awarded_ICT_contracts) unless there is resistance and/or failure (see

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-10 Thread Fearghas McKay
On 10 Feb 2009, at 12:20, Neil Aberdeen wrote: Interesting as all these discussions are schools will have what's given to them and supported under BSF monoploy IT provision (see http://www.edugeek.net/wiki/index.php/List_of_awarded_ICT_contracts) unless there is resistance and/or failure

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Richard Lockwood
Mm. Very interesting. If something as simple as a petition will make Windows free and open source, why has no-one thought of it before? Why do the idiots who start these petitions never have any kind of grasp of grammar? Or proof reading? Would you take anyone seriously who turned up on your

RE: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Christopher Woods
Seen this in my mailbox a few times today, sure you will all find this interesting... We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools/ I find this idea

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Phil Whitehouse
He isn't advocating making Windows open source, the petition states that the primary OS used in schools should be a free and open source alternative to windows. Not idiotic at all. I've signed up. Phil On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com wrote: Mm.

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Ant Miller
Chris, your points are very interesting, and I wonder if you've been in touch with the team who are behind Open Labs: Learning? http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/openlearning/ a On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.ukwrote: Seen this in my mailbox a few times

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Dave Crossland
2009/2/9 Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com: If something as simple as a petition will make Windows free and open source, why has no-one thought of it before? That is not what the petition is about! :-) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Ant Miller
Interesting that OLPC has just gone OS! Also,: www.opensourceschools.org.uk http://www.osor.eu/news/uk-open-source-is-core-to-education http://www.141.co.uk/?p=164 On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Dave Crossland d...@lab6.com wrote: 2009/2/9 Richard Lockwood richard.lockw...@gmail.com: If

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Rob Myers
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Christopher Woods chris...@infinitus.co.uk Transforming a Windows school to an Ubuntu school is nigh on impossible to achieve unless you provide a year's warning, gradually phase out use of all Windows-only software over the course of the year, implement the

RE: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Andrew Bowden
Transforming a Windows school to an Ubuntu school is nigh on impossible to achieve unless you provide a year's warning, gradually phase out use of all Windows-only software over the course of the year, implement the massive overhaul and platform transition during the holidays and then

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Phil Whitehouse
Maybe I'm a poor deluded misguided fool who needs showing the error of my ways? Lorks, far from it! I think we'd need a lot of people like you if the government does try and introduce open source into schools. These are really important problems that mustn't be overlooked. I'll assume for the

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Dave Crossland
2009/2/9 Phil Whitehouse phil.whiteho...@gmail.com: Maybe I'm a poor deluded misguided fool who needs showing the error of my ways? We're training our kids to give money to vendors for their entire lives. And, more importantly IMO, to not consider the value of freedom in relation to the parts

RE: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Christopher Woods
And yet they will end up on a newer Microsoft operating system at some point. ;-) Right - if they really stayed put with what they have, then they'd still be using Acorns. Which probably taught kids more about computer science than the XP machines in use today ;-) So, rather than

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Neil Aberdeen
Although this rant is impassioned and detailed it's almost comically misinformed. What's happening in education IT(C) is the imposition of a £45bn corporate cash cow called Building Schools for the Future (BSF) - through which the government is shamefully entering into yet more PFI

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Michael
On Monday 09 February 2009 17:32:58 Christopher Woods wrote: The main sticking point for most schools is the can we help students if... question. This is part of the issue that some people forget when they put their personal politics before the needs of children at school. If a tool undermines

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread backstage
On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 04:12:09PM -, Christopher Woods wrote: Aside from the fact that the suite of *de facto* software the students would use day in and day would need to be the same, in some cases the bloody curriculum demanded that particular software be used, so your hands were tied.

RE: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Christopher Woods
Although this rant is impassioned and detailed it's almost comically misinformed. What's happening in education IT(C) is the imposition of a £45bn corporate cash cow called Building Schools for the Future (BSF) - through which the government is shamefully entering into yet more PFI relationships.

RE: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Christopher Woods
Sorry for those who can't quite figure out what I'm quoting and what I'm saying myself in my previous email, when I converted to plaintext I forgot to add in the appropriate quote marks. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Rob Myers
Who cares if MS is de facto in the school setting if it serves its purpose?=20 Its purpose (as someone else pointed out quite eloquently) is to teach kids. I don't know how well MS software teaches anything other than how to use the previous version of MS software, a skill that at best

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Richard Lockwood
I allege that the advantages of switching to Free Software *can* outweigh the costs (sic) of support, teaching, and third party staff upgrading their skills to more open, flexible and studiable systems. ;-) I like the use of the word allege. Can you demonstrate it? Cheers, Rich. - Sent via

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Rob Myers
Richard Lockwood wrote: I allege that the advantages of switching to Free Software *can* outweigh the costs (sic) of support, teaching, and third party staff upgrading their skills to more open, flexible and studiable systems. ;-) I like the use of the word allege. Can you demonstrate it?

Re: [backstage] Make the primary operating system used in state schools free and open source

2009-02-09 Thread Adam
Richard Lockwood wrote: I allege that the advantages of switching to Free Software *can* outweigh the costs (sic) of support, teaching, and third party staff upgrading their skills to more open, flexible and studiable systems. ;-) I like the use of the word allege. Can you demonstrate