that are
possible, it's
more fruitful to study the sacred texts, especially Abdu'l Baha's words about
the
Universal House of Justice. It's possible to think of a million things to
worry about,
and when one is answered, to think up another one. If that's the kind of
life you want for yourself, O.K
but the information they recieve doesn't cause and infallible decision
automatically?
Change for:
but, does the information they recieve cause an infallible decision
automatically?
http://hasaneliasperu.blogspot.com/
The information contained in this e-mail
with these statements. However, when one studies the different
statements of Bahá'u'llah on the institute of the Universal House of
Justice, you will read that this body is under the direct guidance of
Bahá'u'llah. It is not infallible in the way the Guardian when interpreting
(and I do not mean translation here
Janine,
I don't have any objection to what you wrote as a description of your
beliefs. I think your description of unity was especially clear:
On 1/23/06, janine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
there are statements like this one, from Abdu'l-Bahá'í, which at
least consider the possibility that any
"There is a difference between
"authorized" and "authoritative". The Guardian and Abdu'l Baha could make
authoritative translations as part of their station within the
faith."
Uh, Scott. There was one major obstacle
preventing Abdu'l-Baha from doing any translations. He didn't know
At 7:53 AM -0500 1/12/06, Susan Maneck wrote:
There is a difference between authorized and authoritative. The
Guardian and Abdu'l Baha could make authoritative translations as
part of their station within the faith.
Uh, Scott. There was one major obstacle preventing Abdu'l-Baha from
doing
On 1/11/06, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But even just with the fact that the UHJ does translation work means
it is interpreting at least on a really basic level.
Scott:
The House does not translate anything, it takes the work of the
Uh, Scott. There was one major obstacle preventing Abdu'l-Baha from
doing any translations. He didn't know English. ;-}
What about Turkish? I have heard that he carried on a fair
correspondence in Turkish.
Dear Don,
Yes, there are some Tablets in Ottoman Turkish, but to my knowledge no
.
I've been trying to tell you we are talking about a specialized meaning all
along. The Universal House of Justice does not engage in *authoritative
interpretation.* Obviously you, I and the rest of the world including the
House of Justice engage in some kind of interpretation or we couldn't even
At 10:03 AM -0500 1/12/06, Gilberto Simpson wrote:
A likely resolution is that there is a special sense of the word
interpret which some Bahais are using, but which is different from
the ordinary meaning of the term in English.
I think, rather, that a special meaning is given to
Susan Maneck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "There is a difference between "authorized" and "authoritative". The Guardian and Abdu'l Baha could make authoritative translations as part of their station within the faith."Uh, Scott. There was one major obstacle preventing
`Abdu'l-Baha has prayers and perhaps some Tablets in Turkish.
Regards,
Iskandar
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006, Don Calkins wrote:
What about Turkish? I have heard that he carried on a fair
correspondence in Turkish. If so, did he ever quote the Writings in
Turkish?
Don C
The
In my experience Bahais aren't necessarily saying right off the bat
that they are using certain terms in a very unique and unconventional
way.
Dear Gilberto,
That's because they don't see their use of those terms as 'unique'
or 'conventional.' But they do have a technical meaning in a
meaning all
along.
Gilberto:
Where?
Susan:
The Universal House of Justice does not engage in *authoritative
interpretation.* Obviously you, I and the rest of the world including the
House of Justice engage in some kind of interpretation or we couldn't even
communicate.
I don't recall using
For example, when Scottwas trying to explain what *he* meant by interpret and elucidatate
he didn't whip out a super-secret Bahai decoder ring.
Okay, who told Gilberto about the decoder rings?
Ben :)
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is
Well, you did, Benjamin . . . . I had mine installed as a PDA aid, how about you?Regards, ScottBenjamin La Framboise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example, when Scottwas trying to explain what *he* meant by "interpret" and "elucidatate" he didn't whip out a super-secret Bahai decoder
On 1/12/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my experience Bahais aren't necessarily saying right off the bat
that they are using certain terms in a very unique and unconventional
way.
Dear Gilberto,
That's because they don't see their use of those terms as 'unique'
or
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Gilberto:So an infallible body selects and approves a translation which is tobe used by all Bahais, and that doesn't imply that the approvedtranslation is a correct interpretation of the original text?Gilberto: What do they check for when they don't
On 1/12/06, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gilberto:
So an infallible body selects and approves a translation which is to
be used by all Bahais, and that doesn't imply that the approved
translation is a correct interpretation of the original
Gilberto Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On 1/12/06, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Gilberto: So an infallible body selects and approves a translation which is to be used by all Bahais, and that doesn't imply that the approved
On 1/12/06, Scott Saylors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Gilberto,
translate and interpret are not perfect synonyms.
I agree. But translation implies interpretation. You can interpret
without translating (from one language to another). But you can't
translate without interpreting (unless you
Title: Re: The Universal House of
Justice
At 10:13 PM -0500 1/12/06, Benjamin La Framboise wrote:
For example, when Scott
was trying to explain what *he* meant by interpret and
elucidatate
he didn't whip out a super-secret Bahai decoder ring.
Okay, who told Gilberto about the decoder
So could the UHJ could approve a translation, and the translation
be mistaken?
Yes, certainly.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail)
is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of
Effendi. It continues to fulfil
its life-giving purpose through the agency of the Universal House of Justice
whose fundamental object, as one of the twin successors of Bah'u'llh and
'Abdu'l-Bah, is to ensure the continuity of that divinely-appointed authority
which flows from the Source
of `Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. It
continues to fulfil its life-giving purpose through the agency of the
Universal House of Justice whose fundamental object, as one of the twin
successors of Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá, is to ensure the continuity of
that divinely-appointed authority which
and interpreting.
-Gilberto
Except that nowhere in the text of Khazeh's message does it say the
Universal House of Justice interprets. In fact it says elucidate.
Regards,
Scott
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto
(e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community
But even just with the fact that the UHJ does translation work means
it is interpreting at least on a really basic level.
Dear Gilberto,
The House of Justice doesn't do the translation work, it merely authorizes
the translations done by others. And their translatiosn are not
authoritative in the
;authoritative". The Guardian and Abdu'l Baha could make authoritative translations as part of their station within the faith. The Universal House of Justice cannot. Therefore, when necessary, the UHJ commissions individuals to do the translation work - usually in committee, and the work of the c
"Perhaps. But then, again, it is up to the Universal House of Justice how to spend, and what, out of which funds, isn't it?"
The Universal House of Justice would not use funds that had been earmarked for other purposes such as contributions for the upkeep of the Terraces, but
I heard that the House gave money towards tsunami relief. Does the House
often give to charity? Can someone fill me in on this subject?
Regards,
David
Dear David,
As a Baha'i in Thailand, I can confirm that the Universal House of Justice
sent some money to our NSA to assist those affected
Dear David:
The answer lies in: the Constitution of the Universal House of Justice, which is the "Most Great Law" of the Baha'i Faith, according to the Baha'i Teachings; and in the Sacred Writings of Baha'u'llah, and Abdu'l-Baha, and Shoghi Effendi, where the duties of the Unive
Perhaps. But then, again, it is up to the Universal House of Justice how to spend, and what, out of which funds, isn't it?
BarmakHasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wonder if those incomes gets out fromHuqúqu'lláhInternational founds. Am I correct?
David Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió
Looking at some of the correspondence re: the election of the Universal
House of Justice in 1963, I thought I might point out a bit of information.
Someone asked the Hand of the Cause, Mr. Z.ikru'llah Khadem re: the timing
of the election of the Universal House of Justice. That great man said
Dear Gilberto and Scott,
In an attempt to add some balance to the endless discussion
about who determined that women should not serve on the
Universal House of Justice; I offer the following from the
Kitab-i-Aqdas, after your comments.
Gilberto: The UHJ which interprets the laws excludes
Actually it was a Universal House of Justice
decision that ruled that women could not be on the UHJ.
I would like to offer my own take on this.
I think that what the House decided, was that it is not a matter on which it
can legislate, as the Text has already addressed the subject. The House
In a message dated 1/12/2005 6:58:21 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What the House did, after reviewing the Text and the authorized interpretations by the Master and the Guardian, was conclude that the Text states that membership on the House is limited to men, and that it
What the House did, after reviewing the Text and the authorized
interpretations by the Master and the Guardian, was conclude that the Text
states that membership on the House is limited to men, and that it cannot
change that provision.
It's my understanding that there is also the future
Dear David,
I'm sorry about the tone my earlier post to you. I didn't quite mean it to
sound that way. But having read Mr. Arbab's talk I'm still rather puzzled
as to what part of the House's previous guidance was unclear to you before
you heard his talk. In my experience the major problem with
Dear Susan,
But having read Mr. Arbab's talk I'm still rather puzzled
as to what part of the House's previous guidance was unclear to you before
you heard his talk. In my experience the major problem with Baha'is
understanding the House's guidance is that they often don't read it.
Actually it was
The House of Justice in what it has said in its actions has always seen
quite comprehensible to me, unitl recently. What got me thinking was a
conference I attended in Australia on the objectives of the current plan, at
which a member of the House spoke. I'm currently perplexed, as while the
Dear David,
In that entire long post you put up you never once told us what part of the
Five Year Plan people in your country found confusing so I'm not at all sure
what you are talking about.
warmest, Susan
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i
At 7:05 AM -0400 10/20/04, Susan Maneck wrote:
Dear David,
In that entire long post you put up you never once told us what part of the
Five Year Plan people in your country found confusing so I'm not at all sure
what you are talking about.
Basically, the role of Insitutes and education as laid
David,
I think what you experienced are a couple facets of human nature. Each
individual perceives the world around herself/himself differently from
everyone else. What we perceive, accept, believe, and act on is a result
of our experiences. People reading the same document will understand
people (we only have a few
generations of Baha'is on the planet in any numbers) trying to implement
a new-world system. It's new, it's unusual, it's uncomfortable for a lot
of us.
The Universal House of Justice may issue perfect instructions and still
not be heard and/or obeyed, because we
Dear David,
You wrote:
I'm currently perplexed, as while the House is infallible in guidance I
have difficulty in seeing it as such in recent times. I want to make it
clear I'm not having any crisis of faith and unwilling to accept that the
House is infallible. I just would like it's recent
Dear Christian,
I think I understand the gist of your concern. If I'm not mistaken, you
are concerned that if the House of Justice is infallible, then why are
they failing to reach the Baha'is. If they offer perfect guidance, then
why are people not being guided?
Yes, that is what I was asking
David,
At 06:14 PM 10/20/2004, you wrote:
Yes, that is what I was asking about.
What is perfect guidance? In my view, the House of Justice is guaranteed, in its own
magisterium, to reflect the Will of God (the Covenant). Whether God's Will would
require the House to be perfectly guided is not,
Tim,
At 07:21 PM 10/20/2004, you wrote:
Whatever they decide is the truth and the purpose of God Himself.
And I think that is the most we can say about infallibility - that the person or
institution, sometimes only when acting in a certain capacity, reflects the Will (or
purpose) of God.
Mark
I think I understand the gist of your concern. If I'm not mistaken, you
are concerned that if the House of Justice is infallible, then why are
they failing to reach the Baha'is. If they offer perfect guidance, then
why are people not being guided?
Two points:
1. This brings to mind
At 9:27 AM +0700 10/21/04, Firouz Anaraki wrote:
We Baha'is should always consult and provide our
feedback to the House in order for them to make the best decision. If we do
not do our job properly, the House would not be in a position to provide the
best advice for us. We Baha'i grassroots
. If you meet God (in the language of
systematic theology or metaphysics), kill him.
...***
[limited quotation because of copyright]
but it is most interesting and to my humble mind it has many many links
with this Message of the Universal House of Justice:
http://www.bci.org/reno
Hi, Khazeh,
At 09:43 AM 4/3/2004, you quoted:
Thus an early Christian was an atheist because he or she refused to be part of a
complex system in which political and religious loyalties were inseparably bound up.
Atheism was a decision to place certain loyalties above those owed to the
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