Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Liberal religion is a religious tradition which embraces the theological diversity of a congregation rather than a single creed, authority, or writing. Because it may draw resources from many traditions, it cannot normally be characterized as Christian, Jewish, or any particular religious faith. Theologian James Luther Adams defined the five smooth stones of liberalism as: Revelation and truth are not closed, but constantly revealed. All relations between persons ought ideally to rest on mutual, free consent and not coercion. Affirmation of the moral obligation to direct one's effort toward the establishment of a just and loving community. Denial of the immaculate conception of virtue and affirmation of the necessity of social incarnation. Good must be consciously given form and power within history. The resources (divine and human) that are available for achievement of meaningful change justify an attitude of ultimate (but not necessarily immediate) optimism. There is hope in the ultimate abundance of the Universe.[1] A religious liberal has been defined as To be a liberal according to my favorite scripture, Merriam-Webster, is be open minded, is to be free from the constraints of dogmatism and authority, is to be generous and to believe in the basic goodness of humankind. Religion is defined as that which binds us back or reconnects us to that which is ultimately important. Thus religious liberals are those that are connected, through generosity and openness, to the most important aspects of life. And therein lies the challenge. If we are open minded and not bound by authority, who or what decides those matters of ultimate importance? Sent from my iPad On Apr 22, 2013, at 14:12, Don Calkins don59...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv if you think liberal means No drugs, no booze, no hanky-panky then I guess we're quite liberal. Don C On Apr 20, 2013, at 5:54 11PM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: Why isn't the Baha'i Faith a liberal religion? - Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699007-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv You seem to be intent on categorizing the Faith. It's not going to work. Why is the Faith referred to as a liberal or progressive group? Because when Abdu'l-Baha was here 100 years ago and emphasized what are now commonly referred to as the Baha'i Principles (all 12 or 15 or however many), most of them were the ideas espoused by secular liberals. The assumption was made that the Faith adapted/adopted these ideas from the liberal elements of society around them. This led to a further assumption that as these ideas evolved and new ideas adopted by liberal and progressive thinkers, that the Faith would likewise adopt them also. There is an element of commonality that is little discussed among Baha'is which it has in common w/ many liberals - the resolution of the old debate between absolutism and relativism. The Faith is more openly relativistic than many religious groups, but it must be remembered that there are certain laws and principles that can not be abrogated before the advent of the next Manifestation. How these laws and principles are implemented can vary greatly, thus giving an air of relativism, but the principles themselves are sacrosanct, absolute. Don C On Apr 24, 2013, at 12:06 01PM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: Liberal religion is a religious tradition which embraces the theological diversity of a congregation rather than a single creed, authority, or writing. Because it may draw resources from many traditions, it cannot normally be characterized as Christian, Jewish, or any particular religious faith. --- It doesn't matter whether the sun shines if you never go outside. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699023-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I would rather like you to use liberal and progressive interchangeably. All progressives are liberal, but not all liberals are progressives. Progressive is a subset of liberal, not equivalent with liberal. Conservatives, libertarians, and social democrats are liberals as well, not just progressives. I only used the word liberal, because Wikipedia uses liberal in the widest sense, not just as a code word for progressive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalist_Association Sent from my iPad On Apr 24, 2013, at 14:16, Don Calkins don59...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv You seem to be intent on categorizing the Faith. It's not going to work. Why is the Faith referred to as a liberal or progressive group? Because when Abdu'l-Baha was here 100 years ago and emphasized what are now commonly referred to as the Baha'i Principles (all 12 or 15 or however many), most of them were the ideas espoused by secular liberals. The assumption was made that the Faith adapted/adopted these ideas from the liberal elements of society around them. This led to a further assumption that as these ideas evolved and new ideas adopted by liberal and progressive thinkers, that the Faith would likewise adopt them also. There is an element of commonality that is little discussed among Baha'is which it has in common w/ many liberals - the resolution of the old debate between absolutism and relativism. The Faith is more openly relativistic than many religious groups, but it must be remembered that there are certain laws and principles that can not be abrogated before the advent of the next Manifestation. How these laws and principles are implemented can vary greatly, thus giving an air of relativism, but the principles themselves are sacrosanct, absolute. Don C On Apr 24, 2013, at 12:06 01PM, Stephen Kent Gray wrote: Liberal religion is a religious tradition which embraces the theological diversity of a congregation rather than a single creed, authority, or writing. Because it may draw resources from many traditions, it cannot normally be characterized as Christian, Jewish, or any particular religious faith. --- It doesn't matter whether the sun shines if you never go outside. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699033-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Against nature...
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Don, can I ask you to please stop answering Steve's posts. As moderator I have made it clear that he is no longer welcome here. Not after he referred to the Baha'i community as the Heterodox Haifan Sect. He insists on staying, but we don't need to be encouraging him by answering his posts. I am trying to contact Mark Foster to have him formally removed. On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Don Calkins don59...@gmail.com wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv You seem to be intent on categorizing the Faith. It's not going to work __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699036-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Ridvan letter
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Does anyone know whether the Ridvan letter from the House is available? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks, Mike -- Mike and Dede Moum Des Moines, Iowa Visit the Baha'i World at www.bahai.org Visit the US Baha'i website at www.us.bahai.org __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699075-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ridvan letter
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Should come out between the 9th and 12th day of Ridvan, I guess. That's when the international convention meets. On Wednesday, April 24, 2013, Mike Moum wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Does anyone know whether the Ridvan letter from the House is available? I can't find it anywhere. Thanks, Mike -- Mike and Dede Moum Des Moines, Iowa Visit the Baha'i World at www.bahai.org Visit the US Baha'i website at www.us.bahai.org __** You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:iskandar@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto: leave-699075-2080565.74e62800577573ae18970b78170ff...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/**read/all_forums/subscribe?** name=bahai-sthttp://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/**read/?forum=bahai-sthttp://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/**bahai...@list.jccc.nethttp://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/**bahai-st@list.jccc.eduhttp://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- Sent from Gmail Mobile __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699078-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ridvan letter
The Baha'i Studies Listserv i don't think it will be released til it is presented at the International Convention. Don C On Apr 24, 2013, at 3:24 37PM, Mike Moum wrote: Does anyone know whether the Ridvan letter from the House is available? I can't find it anywhere. - Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in nature. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-699079-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
