Re: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py)
Bibhas, You should be able to rest easy. In the 10+yrs I have been on this mailing seldom/never have I seen someone bring in discord and in-your-face as was done recently... I rather expect to go another 10yrs before seeing it here again. Now, to Bibhas' point about desiring to see Pythonic discussions - always good initiative to start some discussions rather than waiting for one. We try to avoid questions that fail the did you google it first? test. Other that that, whether a discussion is interesting and topical is, er, subjective. Don't be afraid to try it. Not every discussion must be about the arcane here. So to that I started a thread of interest to me, hopefully useful to those new to the list, what favorite tips our experts here found of frequent use. From: Bibhas m...@bibhas.in To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India bangpypers@python.org Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw:Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py) Thanks Dhananjay, Finally someone is asking something sensible among all the mud throwing that's going on. I have the same set of questions. I'm one of the junior most members here and the behaviors of all the senior members have really disappointed me for last two days. Specially because a lot of people who participated in that thread, hardly participates in any python related discussions in this list. I joined this group thinking it'd be a constructive source of discussions. But with all the childish blaming around (like we kids take a matter to the teacher or parents or shout to the the class rather than trying to solve it ourselves), even after an apology was posted long back, I have started to believe that I'm in the wrong place. I'm now waiting for the matter to close and all the related people to come to peace. If that doesn't happen, I'm better off the list. And from the behaviors I've seen in last two days, I'd rather not join any other groups in future, new or old. Thanks for everything. Dhananjay Nene dhananjay.n...@gmail.com wrote: Top posting since am making some rather broad comments rather than to specific lines in particular. This is a thread which has been bothering me since morning. For a number of reasons. None of them have to do with the very essence of the thread, since I never got to see the repository and the code to be able to make a judgement. So I took an apology offered as a sign of matter closed and hopefully things taking a turn for the better. * Yet more comments continued about specific people. I've always thought a good decorum is to attack issues, generally not people. Is that a reasonable guideline to follow ? I really do not think it was appropriate to continue with judgement about people once the underlying issues had been addressed. I don't know if I hold a minority position here. * Further comments continued about how to appropriately bring the matter to a closure. I thought the convergence and agreement on the core issues should've closed it. I am frankly not sure why anyone would've imagined why list readers would be remotely interested in further tactical matters such as existence or deletion of github repos and the necessity to close them out and the sequencing thereof. * I was further happy to note that the thread died down, but no, there was more drama to follow. It so seems a private message was forwarded to the mailing list. I speak for myself, but to me and under my individual code of conduct, this is outrageous behaviour. This concerns me. There are some serious privacy issues here (imo). eg: I was to respond to matters raised in this mailing list to someone else privately, I am no longer sure whats the community stand - can it be made public or will the community severely frown on such a behaviour. I am in doubt because list admins are further being encouraged stop this whatever this means in the context. This breaks every known decorum I know of and I wonder if this list has a different set of rules than what I think lists follow. I think there are some meta-issues about the mailing list that do need to be discussed. I don't know if this is the place to do it, so will leave it at these set of open questions to be worked through. This discussion could be moved to an appropriate forum if this is not the place. Dhananjay On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM, svaksha svak...@gmail.com wrote: Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything on the list. List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. svaksha ॥ स्वक्ष -- Forwarded message -- From: CsquaredinOmaha c2inom...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: svak...@gmail.com svak...@gmail.com Svaksah
[BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py)
Top posting since am making some rather broad comments rather than to specific lines in particular. This is a thread which has been bothering me since morning. For a number of reasons. None of them have to do with the very essence of the thread, since I never got to see the repository and the code to be able to make a judgement. So I took an apology offered as a sign of matter closed and hopefully things taking a turn for the better. * Yet more comments continued about specific people. I've always thought a good decorum is to attack issues, generally not people. Is that a reasonable guideline to follow ? I really do not think it was appropriate to continue with judgement about people once the underlying issues had been addressed. I don't know if I hold a minority position here. * Further comments continued about how to appropriately bring the matter to a closure. I thought the convergence and agreement on the core issues should've closed it. I am frankly not sure why anyone would've imagined why list readers would be remotely interested in further tactical matters such as existence or deletion of github repos and the necessity to close them out and the sequencing thereof. * I was further happy to note that the thread died down, but no, there was more drama to follow. It so seems a private message was forwarded to the mailing list. I speak for myself, but to me and under my individual code of conduct, this is outrageous behaviour. This concerns me. There are some serious privacy issues here (imo). eg: I was to respond to matters raised in this mailing list to someone else privately, I am no longer sure whats the community stand - can it be made public or will the community severely frown on such a behaviour. I am in doubt because list admins are further being encouraged stop this whatever this means in the context. This breaks every known decorum I know of and I wonder if this list has a different set of rules than what I think lists follow. I think there are some meta-issues about the mailing list that do need to be discussed. I don't know if this is the place to do it, so will leave it at these set of open questions to be worked through. This discussion could be moved to an appropriate forum if this is not the place. Dhananjay On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM, svaksha svak...@gmail.com wrote: Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything on the list. List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. svaksha ॥ स्वक्ष -- Forwarded message -- From: CsquaredinOmaha c2inom...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: svak...@gmail.com svak...@gmail.com Svaksah, This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. My rule is praise in public, criticize in private. But I made a mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. My apologies. - Forwarded Message - From: CsquaredinOmaha c2inom...@yahoo.com To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India bangpypers@python.org Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested in forcing others by your bullying. I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly interested in your reply and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. So my asking you a question you don't want to answer means you label it troll and wondering your position on equality of free speech is ad hominem . Your stance and attitude do your cause disservice. I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even grasped my point. Which is unfortunate, it seems as so many liberals, that you are being loud without being thoughtful. From: svaksha svak...@gmail.com To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India bangpypers@python.org Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:49 PM Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py Chris, was it easier to troll in private than on the public Bangpypers mailing list? If you're reduced to ad hominem and that too in private off-list messages, you're pretty clearly out of anything remotely relevant to say. svaksha ॥ स्वक्ष -- Forwarded message -- From: CsquaredinOmaha c2inom...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: svak...@gmail.com svak...@gmail.com svaksha, Let me see if I can summarize your string of responses: You are offended by Anand making fun of a group that used .com instead of .org and he apparently was sarcastically bringing into question/criticism some parts of your stated mission. In the subsequent emails, you threatened to report
Re: [BangPypers] Appropriate list conduct (was Re: Fwd: Fw: Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py)
Thanks Dhananjay, Finally someone is asking something sensible among all the mud throwing that's going on. I have the same set of questions. I'm one of the junior most members here and the behaviors of all the senior members have really disappointed me for last two days. Specially because a lot of people who participated in that thread, hardly participates in any python related discussions in this list. I joined this group thinking it'd be a constructive source of discussions. But with all the childish blaming around (like we kids take a matter to the teacher or parents or shout to the the class rather than trying to solve it ourselves), even after an apology was posted long back, I have started to believe that I'm in the wrong place. I'm now waiting for the matter to close and all the related people to come to peace. If that doesn't happen, I'm better off the list. And from the behaviors I've seen in last two days, I'd rather not join any other groups in future, new or old. Thanks for everything. Dhananjay Nene dhananjay.n...@gmail.com wrote: Top posting since am making some rather broad comments rather than to specific lines in particular. This is a thread which has been bothering me since morning. For a number of reasons. None of them have to do with the very essence of the thread, since I never got to see the repository and the code to be able to make a judgement. So I took an apology offered as a sign of matter closed and hopefully things taking a turn for the better. * Yet more comments continued about specific people. I've always thought a good decorum is to attack issues, generally not people. Is that a reasonable guideline to follow ? I really do not think it was appropriate to continue with judgement about people once the underlying issues had been addressed. I don't know if I hold a minority position here. * Further comments continued about how to appropriately bring the matter to a closure. I thought the convergence and agreement on the core issues should've closed it. I am frankly not sure why anyone would've imagined why list readers would be remotely interested in further tactical matters such as existence or deletion of github repos and the necessity to close them out and the sequencing thereof. * I was further happy to note that the thread died down, but no, there was more drama to follow. It so seems a private message was forwarded to the mailing list. I speak for myself, but to me and under my individual code of conduct, this is outrageous behaviour. This concerns me. There are some serious privacy issues here (imo). eg: I was to respond to matters raised in this mailing list to someone else privately, I am no longer sure whats the community stand - can it be made public or will the community severely frown on such a behaviour. I am in doubt because list admins are further being encouraged stop this whatever this means in the context. This breaks every known decorum I know of and I wonder if this list has a different set of rules than what I think lists follow. I think there are some meta-issues about the mailing list that do need to be discussed. I don't know if this is the place to do it, so will leave it at these set of open questions to be worked through. This discussion could be moved to an appropriate forum if this is not the place. Dhananjay On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:08 AM, svaksha svak...@gmail.com wrote: Chris, STOP emailing me offlist. I made it very clear earlier that I didnt want to have any private conversations and have said everything on the list. List admins, can you do something to stop this? Thanks. svaksha ॥ स्वक्ष -- Forwarded message -- From: CsquaredinOmaha c2inom...@yahoo.com Date: Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM Subject: Fw: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py To: svak...@gmail.com svak...@gmail.com Svaksah, This was intended to be sent to you directly, not to the group list. My rule is praise in public, criticize in private. But I made a mistake in replying using this yahoo email interface. My apologies. - Forwarded Message - From: CsquaredinOmaha c2inom...@yahoo.com To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India bangpypers@python.org Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Fwd: https://github.com/pythonhacker/ladies.py That is what I thought - you have no answers and are simply interested in forcing others by your bullying. I took it off topic, directly to you, because I was honestly interested in your reply and didn't want your reply to be compelled to be less than honest. So my asking you a question you don't want to answer means you label it troll and wondering your position on equality of free speech is ad hominem . Your stance and attitude do your cause disservice. I don't believe you have even it any thought and perhaps don't even grasped my point. Which is unfortunate, it seems as so many liberals, that
