Re: [BangPypers] [X-Post] PythonExpress challenges

[Anuvrat Parashar]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Anand B Pillai 
wrote:

On Saturday 05 August 2017 02:07 PM, vijay kumar wrote:
> Hi All,
> As we discussed couple of months ago[0], PythonExpress project
requires
> funding to take care of certain things.
>
> a) Keeping the tutor motivated and encouraged to conduct multiple
workshops
> seems to be tough. Even though we take care of travel and
accommodation
> with or without the help of colleges, we find short of tutors some
times.
> IMO, we should provide a small token amount to tutors to show
appreciation.
>
> b) we should think of an option to provide college students
certificates as
> a workshop without certificates is not welcomed as much by all
colleges and
> students.
> I think that this can be resolved in 2 ways.
> 1. Request college to pay us if they need certificates - hard copy.
> 2. Generate soft copies of certificate (PDF) and share it with
students
> once college uploads the student details.
>
> Also,
> c) Conducting Intermediate level workshop for the students who has
taken
> the the beginners level since we are not able to find tutors.

Vijay,

>> What we have in India is a lack of mentors. This is no just with
>> PythonExpress but with any similar project providing post-collegiate
>> education free or at a minimal cost.


Agreed.


>> There is the need for a system that will train the trainers, teach
the
>> tutors.


We still won't have the guarantee that the trainers we train conduct good
workshops.

SpokenTutorials has solved this problem by creating their own audio-visual
content and conducting the trainings remotely. They essentially took the
trainer
out of the equation.



>> PythonExpress should think of conducting intermediate level workshops
>> with a view of teaching the tutors, training the trainers. For this a
>> certification can be introduced and a very nominal fee charged to
take
>> care of the expenses.
>> This model will work out better in a long time frame since are
>> replenishing the supply side (provider side) of the equation. The
demand
>> side will always be there and growing.
>> Experienced people can be asked to give such workshops. If we do
this, I
>> will be glad to volunteer.


Me too.

@Anand, about the lack of mentors.

Kids promise that they would learn on their own, use the resources we
share,
reach out to the community if they have problems. But very few actualy do.
I was recently contacted by quite a few students from last year's
PythonExpress
workshops, but all had gone back to the Rat Race of maintaining CGPAs. No
one
had tried to learn more than what was covered in the workshop and one year
down
the line didn't even remember what was covered in the workshops.

This problem would require continued investment and patience on the lines
of
what the dgpLUG (hats off to Kushal and team) community has been able to
do.
One day, even week long workshops lack the perseverence, feedback loop,
intensity
for the evolution of mentor-mentee relationships.

My point being, is PE the right platform for this problem?

-- 
Anuvrat Parashar 
http://anuvrat.in
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Re: [BangPypers] [X-Post] PythonExpress challenges

[vijay kumar]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 4:35 PM, Anand B Pillai 
wrote:

> On Saturday 05 August 2017 02:07 PM, vijay kumar wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > As we discussed couple of months ago[0], PythonExpress project requires
> > funding to take care of certain things.
> >
> > a) Keeping the tutor motivated and encouraged to conduct multiple
> workshops
> > seems to be tough. Even though we take care of travel and accommodation
> > with or without the help of colleges, we find short of tutors some times.
> > IMO, we should provide a small token amount to tutors to show
> appreciation.
> >
> > b) we should think of an option to provide college students certificates
> as
> > a workshop without certificates is not welcomed as much by all colleges
> and
> > students.
> > I think that this can be resolved in 2 ways.
> > 1. Request college to pay us if they need certificates - hard copy.
> > 2. Generate soft copies of certificate (PDF) and share it with students
> > once college uploads the student details.
> >
> > Also,
> > c) Conducting Intermediate level workshop for the students who has taken
> > the the beginners level since we are not able to find tutors.
>
> Vijay,
>
> What we have in India is a lack of mentors. This is no just with
> PythonExpress but with any similar project providing post-collegiate
> education free or at a minimal cost.
>
> There is the need for a system that will train the trainers, teach the
> tutors.
>
> PythonExpress should think of conducting intermediate level workshops
> with a view of teaching the tutors, training the trainers. For this a
> certification can be introduced and a very nominal fee charged to take
> care of the expenses.
>
> This model will work out better in a long time frame since are
> replenishing the supply side (provider side) of the equation. The demand
> side will always be there and growing.
>
> Experienced people can be asked to give such workshops. If we do this, I
> will be glad to volunteer.
>
>
I had gave thought on this but was not able to conclude how it will work in
long terms.
Concern I can think of

1) It has too many logistics issue
2) We need experienced volunteer to help with from different states.
3) With money, Expecation become one more problem and can sometime back
fire.


This is just thought
"
We even get workshop request to train professors via pythonexpress that
could be good place to experiment with this idea and request PSSI, FOSS or
 PSF to help us Pay tutor directly and request college to donate to
pythonexpress project.

We need to come with policy to enforce attende for this kind of workshop to
condcut workshop as give back to python community .

"







> >
> > Kindly let us know your thoughts on the same.
> >
> >
> > [0] : http://lists.pssi.org.in/pipermail/pythonexpress/2017-
> > April/000182.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> --Anand
>
> 
> Software Architect/Consultant
> anandpil...@letterboxes.org
>
> http://twitter.com/skeptichacker
> ___
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>



-- 
Thanks,
Vijay
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Re: [BangPypers] [X-Post] PythonExpress challenges

[vijay kumar]

On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे <
mandarv...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > It will at max prove that student was in a place for few hours
>
>
> We can always call it "Certificate of Participation" (Which is what you are
> suggesting, I think)
> Is there a "mini test" at the end of the workshop ?
> If yes, they certificate can be given only to those who "pass" (assuming
> the test is neither too easy, nor too hard)
>
>
Good suggesiton. We should surely try with few workshop and see feedback on
this.

How about creating workshop online in pythonexpress website itself and ask
student to take it.
Any developers willing to help us devloping this module?



> -Mandar
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>



-- 
Thanks,
Vijay
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Re: [BangPypers] [X-Post] PythonExpress challenges

[Mandar Vaze / मंदार वझे]

> It will at max prove that student was in a place for few hours


We can always call it "Certificate of Participation" (Which is what you are
suggesting, I think)
Is there a "mini test" at the end of the workshop ?
If yes, they certificate can be given only to those who "pass" (assuming
the test is neither too easy, nor too hard)

-Mandar
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Re: [BangPypers] [X-Post] PythonExpress challenges

[Anand B Pillai]

On Saturday 05 August 2017 02:07 PM, vijay kumar wrote:
> Hi All,
> As we discussed couple of months ago[0], PythonExpress project requires
> funding to take care of certain things.
> 
> a) Keeping the tutor motivated and encouraged to conduct multiple workshops
> seems to be tough. Even though we take care of travel and accommodation
> with or without the help of colleges, we find short of tutors some times.
> IMO, we should provide a small token amount to tutors to show appreciation.
> 
> b) we should think of an option to provide college students certificates as
> a workshop without certificates is not welcomed as much by all colleges and
> students.
> I think that this can be resolved in 2 ways.
> 1. Request college to pay us if they need certificates - hard copy.
> 2. Generate soft copies of certificate (PDF) and share it with students
> once college uploads the student details.
> 
> Also,
> c) Conducting Intermediate level workshop for the students who has taken
> the the beginners level since we are not able to find tutors.

Vijay,

What we have in India is a lack of mentors. This is no just with
PythonExpress but with any similar project providing post-collegiate
education free or at a minimal cost.

There is the need for a system that will train the trainers, teach the
tutors.

PythonExpress should think of conducting intermediate level workshops
with a view of teaching the tutors, training the trainers. For this a
certification can be introduced and a very nominal fee charged to take
care of the expenses.

This model will work out better in a long time frame since are
replenishing the supply side (provider side) of the equation. The demand
side will always be there and growing.

Experienced people can be asked to give such workshops. If we do this, I
will be glad to volunteer.


> 
> Kindly let us know your thoughts on the same.
> 
> 
> [0] : http://lists.pssi.org.in/pipermail/pythonexpress/2017-
> April/000182.html
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Regards,

--Anand


Software Architect/Consultant
anandpil...@letterboxes.org

http://twitter.com/skeptichacker
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Re: [BangPypers] [X-Post] PythonExpress challenges

[Kushal Das]

On 05/08/17, vijay kumar wrote:
> Hi All,
> As we discussed couple of months ago[0], PythonExpress project requires
> funding to take care of certain things.
> 
> a) Keeping the tutor motivated and encouraged to conduct multiple workshops
> seems to be tough. Even though we take care of travel and accommodation
> with or without the help of colleges, we find short of tutors some times.
> IMO, we should provide a small token amount to tutors to show appreciation.
> 

This is generally a good idea. But, it also depends on the number of
requests, amount, and total funding available.

> b) we should think of an option to provide college students certificates as
> a workshop without certificates is not welcomed as much by all colleges and
> students.
> I think that this can be resolved in 2 ways.
> 1. Request college to pay us if they need certificates - hard copy.
> 2. Generate soft copies of certificate (PDF) and share it with students
> once college uploads the student details.

Giving out certificates is a double edged sword. One way, it will get us
a lot more participations in the initial round of workshops in the
colleges every year. In the other way, that certification will not have
any value for job or for any company. It will at max prove that student
was in a place for few hours (or that can also be manipulated by the
person entering data from the college).


> 
> Also,
> c) Conducting Intermediate level workshop for the students who has taken
> the the beginners level since we are not able to find tutors.

This is a good idea. Otherwise we will have a lot of people who knows
the syntax of the language, and used it for a few hours in their life
time.


Btw, is there any update on the syllabus work for the workshops?

Kushal
-- 
Fedora Cloud Engineer
CPython Core Developer
https://kushaldas.in
https://dgplug.org
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