I want to know everything about all the Grissau manuscripts!
Are On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Arthur Ness wrote: > Actually I was mentioning the two manuscripts with > Kniebandl's name and the treatises. There are about ten > lute manuscripts from Grissau. Most of them were > transferred from Wroclaw to Warsaw, and have new call > numbers. I'll try to make a summary later. There's a > complete listing of conmtents in the Meyer et al. > catalogue. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Arthur Ness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Robert Barto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "BAROQUE-LUTE-LIST" > <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 10:31 AM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Kniebandl > > >> Hi everyone! >> >> First I would like to thank Robert Barto for the link >> to the manuscript! >> What a treasure! >> >> The pieces by Kellner were published in 1747, so >> either the pieces must >> have been known earlier than this, or the the >> manuscript was copied, at >> least in part, later than 1747. Does anyone know how >> close the Wroclaw >> versions of the Kellner pieces are to the printed >> versions? >> >> The last pieces in the mansucript are asceibed to a >> certain "W". Any >> suggestions to which "W" that is? S.L. Weiss? J.A. >> Weiss? J.S. Weiss? >> Weichenberger? >> >> I would love to know more about the Wroclaw >> manuscrips. Please enlighten >> me! >> >> >> mvh >> Are Vidar Hansen >> >> On Tue, 9 Jan 2007, Arthur Ness wrote: >> >>> Re: the dates of the two Kniebandl Manuscripts, Mf >>> 2001 >>> and Mf >>> 2002. Both cite him as "P=E8re [Father] Hermien >>> Kniebandl, Prof=E8s [monk]" at the monastery >>> at Grussau. He became prior in 1737, according to >>> Wilhelm Tappert, who examined the manuscripts before >>> they were transferred to Wroclaw, and then in part to >>> Warsaw. So the manuscripts >>> must have been started before 1737, if we are to >>> judge >>> from his ecclesiastical title. The Weiss >>> piece on folio 91 of Mf 2002 has the date 1739. >>> >>> There are three or four copies of the Falkenhagen >>> portrait on the Internet. One is on the site for the >>> City of Bayreuth. Maybe they would give you >>> permission >>> to use it. It would be good publicity for their >>> tourist >>> bureau. Use the Google Images option, and both >>> spellings: Falkenhagen and Falckenhagen. >>> >>> St=F6r also engraved the portrait of Baron, and >>> Falkenhagen's tablatures for the Nuremberg lutenist >>> and >>> music publisher Johann Ulrich Haffner. Haffner's >>> name >>> came up >>> here a few months ago because he was a friend of >>> Leopold >>> Mozart, who was his agent in Augsburg. >>> >>> Joachim Domning has another engraved portrait on his >>> web >>> page depicting Haffner playing lute. Probably by >>> St=F6r, >>> too. Surely Joachim must know where the portrait came >>> from. >>> --ajn >>> ==========================================================> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Robert Barto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "BAROQUE-LUTE-LIST" >>> <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:05 PM >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] 18th-century right hand >>> fingering (long) >>>> Wayne tells me this should come through now. >>>> >>>> I've done a little article on 18th-century right >>>> hand >>>> fingering that will be >>>> appearing in one of the next LSA quarterlies, so I >>>> don't want to say too >>>> much here. But it is evident from Wroclaw 2002 >>>> (Kniebandl) and several other >>>> sources, that the ring finger was used commonly in >>>> four voice chords and >>>> arpeggios. (It's difficult to date this MS, but even >>>> assuming 1730-1760 it >>>> is still of interest.) >>>> >>>> The MS can be found here: >>>> >>>> http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01tc/Wroclaw2002/ >>>> >>>> And more about it, here: >>>> >>>> http://www.tabulatura.de/Knieban/KNintro.htm >>>> >>>> In the London and Dresden Weiss manuscripts, there >>>> are >>>> a total of (I think) >>>> three or four notated ring finger signs. (Dresden >>>> p.248 Bb Sarabande, son. >>>> 25, London p.56v Prelude dm son.13, London p.89r, >>>> Hartig Tombeau, have ring >>>> finger notated. Where else? )But one can assume that >>>> Weiss used the ring >>>> finger in arpeggios similarly to the examples in >>>> Wroclaw and elsewhere. In >>>> these situations it would have been so common that >>>> he >>>> wouldn't have to >>>> mention it. (Four voice chords and longer >>>> arpeggios.) >>>> >>>> This is not to say that he did not use certain two >>>> finger customs or >>>> "tricks" that came from the earlier tradition. Many >>>> of >>>> his fingerings, for >>>> example in the Eb prelude on page 145v in London, >>>> indicate this. ( He may >>>> have written them out because they were not obvious, >>>> or for a special >>>> effect.) >>>> >>>> In the larger arpeggios, especially in the preludes >>>> and fantasias, one of >>>> course can decide whether to jump up from the bass >>>> with the thumb, as Weiss >>>> often specifies, or to use the ring finger in the >>>> middle and top somewhere. >>>> In the larger arpeggios in the allegros and prestos, >>>> one can assume that the >>>> ring finger was used, again as shown in Wroclaw 2002 >>>> and elsewhere, which >>>> reflect what was probably the common practice of the >>>> time. >>>> >>>> Although we have no evidence that the ring finger >>>> was >>>> used in melodic lines, >>>> I think that the modern player has to decide this >>>> for >>>> himself, as baroque >>>> lute spacings and hand sizes vary greatly. Weiss's >>>> melodies are also more >>>> intricate than those of his contemporaries, so it >>>> would require some very >>>> tricky fingering to always avoid the ring finger, >>>> for >>>> whatever reason. >>>> >>>> My original reason for bringing this to the list, >>>> was >>>> that in the article I >>>> say that the French (and German) players of the late >>>> 17th century did not >>>> use the ring finger. I wanted to make sure that >>>> there >>>> were not sources that >>>> contradict this. >>>> >>>> Monin, for the angelique, and Saizenay, for the >>>> theorbo, do apparently use >>>> the ring finger occasionally, perhaps implying a >>>> different technical >>>> approach on these instruments than on the French >>>> 11-course. >>>> >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> > > >
