Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
Well, it's all about shielding mass. If you melt yourself down a meter into the ice, then you're pretty well shielded. So that big steel tank for Project Natick might work ok. Jim Lux (818)354-2075 (office) (818)395-2714 (cell) -Original Message- From: Beowulf [mailto:beowulf-boun...@beowulf.org] On Behalf Of Chris Samuel Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 5:34 AM To: beowulf@beowulf.org Subject: Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick On Tuesday, 12 June 2018 9:37:44 AM AEST Lux, Jim (337K) wrote: > Oh, the radiation dose rate on the surface (variously given as 1-100 > Rad/second (0.01-1 Gy/s), or 5.4 Sv/day (which are orders of magnitude > different) means the first "jupiter rise" would be spectactular, and > then you'd die. 5 Sv (500 rem) is pretty much a lethal dose. Ouch. OK, I'll pass on that... -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
Oh, the radiation dose rate on the surface (variously given as 1-100 Rad/second (0.01-1 Gy/s), or 5.4 Sv/day (which are orders of magnitude different) means the first "jupiter rise" would be spectactular, and then you'd die. 5 Sv (500 rem) is pretty much a lethal dose. On 6/10/18, 5:16 AM, "Beowulf on behalf of Chris Samuel" wrote: On Saturday, 9 June 2018 6:25:33 AM AEST Lux, Jim (337K) wrote: > If you want a cluster computer at Europa, you need reliability and remote > maintainability I suspect you could probably find some volunteers for on-site work... ;-) -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On 06/10/2018 08:15 AM, Chris Samuel wrote: On Saturday, 9 June 2018 6:25:33 AM AEST Lux, Jim (337K) wrote: If you want a cluster computer at Europa, you need reliability and remote maintainability I suspect you could probably find some volunteers for on-site work... ;-) I know some people I'd like to volunteer for that. ;-) ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On 11/06/18 07:46, John Hearns via Beowulf wrote: Stuart Midgley works for DUG? Yup, for over a decade.. :-) -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
Stuart Midgley works for DUG? They are currently recruiting for an HPC manager in London... Interesting... On 7 June 2018 at 23:32, Chris Samuel wrote: > On Friday, 8 June 2018 1:38:11 AM AEST John Hearns via Beowulf wrote: > > > The report interestingly makes a comparison to cruise lines and the US > Navy > > having large IT infrastructures at sea. > > Some oil & gas companies have HPC systems onboard their survey vessels to > process data at sea. One example from Australia: > > https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/01/08/hpc-optimizes- > energy-exploration-oil-gas-startups/ > > # DUG provides hardware and software to marine geophysical company > Polarcus*, > # fitting out its fleet of seagoing vessels for marine seismic data > acquisition. > # Dr. Stuart Midgley, DUG’s systems architect, notes that space is very > # limited on each vessel, so the onboard supercomputing system must be > # extremely powerful for data processing and imaging, yet consume minimal > # electrical power and occupy a limited footprint. > > cheers. > Chris > -- > Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC > > ___ > Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing > To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On Saturday, 9 June 2018 6:25:33 AM AEST Lux, Jim (337K) wrote: > If you want a cluster computer at Europa, you need reliability and remote > maintainability I suspect you could probably find some volunteers for on-site work... ;-) -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
That is a most excellent book. And it brings to mind some of the more complex aspects of maintenance for that cluster. I think that’s actually an important area for cluster development – most of the work, to date, has been in building high performance computing in environments that are easily accessible. *I* have always been interested in HPC in inaccessible or rugged environments. If you want a cluster computer at Europa, you need reliability and remote maintainability, without a full duplex ethernet connection with low latency. If you want to do hard core signal processing (say archaeological radar or seismic processing) in the jungle, where your connection to home is a 9600 bps Iridium satphone. While there are interesting engineering challenges in building a 1000 core cluster in a building to which you can back a truck up to; now think about how you’d build/manage/repair that cluster when the light time delay is 30 minutes, and it takes a year to get there. From: Beowulf on behalf of "beowulf@beowulf.org" Reply-To: John Hearns Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:39 AM To: "beowulf@beowulf.org" Subject: Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick The report interestingly makes a comparison to cruise lines and the US Navy having large IT infrastructures at sea. I guess cruise ships of course have servers plus satcomms, as do warships. But the thought of the SOSUS sonar chain comes to mind... then again those electronics will be down a lot deeper than this. Though I am sure a few racks of FPGAs near your SOSUS listening devices would be good... Going wildly off topic as usual this book https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/08/us/a-tale-of-daring-american-submarine-espionage.html about Operation Ivy Bells is fantastic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_Bells ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On 6/7/18, 8:27 AM, "Beowulf on behalf of Joe Landman" wrote: On 06/07/2018 11:18 AM, Douglas Eadline wrote: > -snip- >> i'm not sure i see a point in all this anyhow, it's a neat science >> experiment, but what's the ROI on sinking a container full of servers >> vs just pumping cold seawater from 100ft down >> > I had the same thought. You could even do a salt water/clear water > heat exchange and not have the salt water near the servers. > > From a risk perspective, failure under 100 ft of sea water > would seem to much more catastrophic vs failure on land and > cooling with pumped water (maybe I read too much N.N. Taleb). Imagine 100kW or so ... suddenly discovering that the neat little hole in the pipe enables this highly conductive ionic fluid to short ... somewhere between 1V and 12V DC. 10's to 100's of thousands of Amps. I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near that when it lets go. Ahem, that is NOT the use case this kind of capability is aiming at. You're right - pumps and pipes and hoses are cheaper. If you're close to the coastline. What if you want your "datacenter" somewhere on a line between Iceland and the Hebrides. (sorry, I just re-read Hunt for Red October on a long plane flight) ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On 6/7/18, 7:48 AM, "Beowulf on behalf of Michael Di Domenico" wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Prentice Bisbal wrote: > > I imagine it would have to be filtered, too, to keep small marine life and > debris from clogging up the piping. I wonder if any forms of marine life in > that part of the ocean would like the warm water inside the heat exchangers > or at the exhaust and try to make it their homes. my guess it's probably a low risk. not only are the pipes likely full copper, which is toxic to most marine life, but the flow rate inside the pipes is probably high enough that nothing has much of a chance to stick. there's probably just some course basic filters that need to scrubbed clear every once in a while. i'm not sure i see a point in all this anyhow, it's a neat science experiment, but what's the ROI on sinking a container full of servers vs just pumping cold seawater from 100ft down --- Yes, copper is your friend. I like the idea (from Michigan?) - have a huge pit full of pipes next to the server center and spray water during the winter to form ice, then melt the ice during the summer. Pumping cold water around is *much* easier than sinking a server farm in the ocean. On the other hand, there *are* people who would be interested in a sea bottom computational capability to process data from, oh, an array of pressure, acoustic, and other sensors, so that the link to the surface doesn't have to carry a huge volume of data. Tsunami detection, for instance, or tracking sea life migration. ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
If I’m not mistaken said person mention is a subscriber on this list Sent from my iPhone > On 08 Jun 2018, at 15:52, Prentice Bisbal wrote: > > >> On 06/07/2018 05:32 PM, Chris Samuel wrote: >>> On Friday, 8 June 2018 1:38:11 AM AEST John Hearns via Beowulf wrote: >>> >>> The report interestingly makes a comparison to cruise lines and the US Navy >>> having large IT infrastructures at sea. >> Some oil & gas companies have HPC systems onboard their survey vessels to >> process data at sea. One example from Australia: >> >> https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/01/08/hpc-optimizes-energy-exploration-oil-gas-startups/ >> # Dr. Stuart Midgley, DUG’s systems architect, >> > Wait a minute... I think I've heard that name before... > ___ > Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing > To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On 06/07/2018 05:32 PM, Chris Samuel wrote: On Friday, 8 June 2018 1:38:11 AM AEST John Hearns via Beowulf wrote: The report interestingly makes a comparison to cruise lines and the US Navy having large IT infrastructures at sea. Some oil & gas companies have HPC systems onboard their survey vessels to process data at sea. One example from Australia: https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/01/08/hpc-optimizes-energy-exploration-oil-gas-startups/ # Dr. Stuart Midgley, DUG’s systems architect, Wait a minute... I think I've heard that name before... ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On Friday, 8 June 2018 1:38:11 AM AEST John Hearns via Beowulf wrote: > The report interestingly makes a comparison to cruise lines and the US Navy > having large IT infrastructures at sea. Some oil & gas companies have HPC systems onboard their survey vessels to process data at sea. One example from Australia: https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/01/08/hpc-optimizes-energy-exploration-oil-gas-startups/ # DUG provides hardware and software to marine geophysical company Polarcus*, # fitting out its fleet of seagoing vessels for marine seismic data acquisition. # Dr. Stuart Midgley, DUG’s systems architect, notes that space is very # limited on each vessel, so the onboard supercomputing system must be # extremely powerful for data processing and imaging, yet consume minimal # electrical power and occupy a limited footprint. cheers. Chris -- Chris Samuel : http://www.csamuel.org/ : Melbourne, VIC ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
The report interestingly makes a comparison to cruise lines and the US Navy having large IT infrastructures at sea. I guess cruise ships of course have servers plus satcomms, as do warships. But the thought of the SOSUS sonar chain comes to mind... then again those electronics will be down a lot deeper than this. Though I am sure a few racks of FPGAs near your SOSUS listening devices would be good... Going wildly off topic as usual this book https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/08/us/a-tale-of-daring-american-submarine-espionage.html about Operation Ivy Bells is fantastic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_Bells On 7 June 2018 at 17:26, Joe Landman wrote: > > > On 06/07/2018 11:18 AM, Douglas Eadline wrote: > >> -snip- >> >>> i'm not sure i see a point in all this anyhow, it's a neat science >>> experiment, but what's the ROI on sinking a container full of servers >>> vs just pumping cold seawater from 100ft down >>> >>> I had the same thought. You could even do a salt water/clear water >> heat exchange and not have the salt water near the servers. >> >> From a risk perspective, failure under 100 ft of sea water >> would seem to much more catastrophic vs failure on land and >> cooling with pumped water (maybe I read too much N.N. Taleb). >> > > Imagine 100kW or so ... suddenly discovering that the neat little hole in > the pipe enables this highly conductive ionic fluid to short ... somewhere > between 1V and 12V DC. 10's to 100's of thousands of Amps. I wouldn't > wanna be anywhere near that when it lets go. > > >> >> > -- > Joe Landman > e: joe.land...@gmail.com > t: @hpcjoe > w: https://scalability.org > g: https://github.com/joelandman > l: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelandman > > > ___ > Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing > To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On 06/07/2018 11:18 AM, Douglas Eadline wrote: -snip- i'm not sure i see a point in all this anyhow, it's a neat science experiment, but what's the ROI on sinking a container full of servers vs just pumping cold seawater from 100ft down I had the same thought. You could even do a salt water/clear water heat exchange and not have the salt water near the servers. From a risk perspective, failure under 100 ft of sea water would seem to much more catastrophic vs failure on land and cooling with pumped water (maybe I read too much N.N. Taleb). Imagine 100kW or so ... suddenly discovering that the neat little hole in the pipe enables this highly conductive ionic fluid to short ... somewhere between 1V and 12V DC. 10's to 100's of thousands of Amps. I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near that when it lets go. -- Joe Landman e: joe.land...@gmail.com t: @hpcjoe w: https://scalability.org g: https://github.com/joelandman l: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelandman ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
Re: [Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
-snip- > > i'm not sure i see a point in all this anyhow, it's a neat science > experiment, but what's the ROI on sinking a container full of servers > vs just pumping cold seawater from 100ft down > I had the same thought. You could even do a salt water/clear water heat exchange and not have the salt water near the servers. From a risk perspective, failure under 100 ft of sea water would seem to much more catastrophic vs failure on land and cooling with pumped water (maybe I read too much N.N. Taleb). -- Doug -- MailScanner: Clean ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
[Beowulf] Fwd: Project Natick
On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Prentice Bisbal wrote: > > I imagine it would have to be filtered, too, to keep small marine life and > debris from clogging up the piping. I wonder if any forms of marine life in > that part of the ocean would like the warm water inside the heat exchangers > or at the exhaust and try to make it their homes. my guess it's probably a low risk. not only are the pipes likely full copper, which is toxic to most marine life, but the flow rate inside the pipes is probably high enough that nothing has much of a chance to stick. there's probably just some course basic filters that need to scrubbed clear every once in a while. i'm not sure i see a point in all this anyhow, it's a neat science experiment, but what's the ROI on sinking a container full of servers vs just pumping cold seawater from 100ft down and the servers are likely fail at some rate, at what point do they consider a failed container failed and pull it back up from to the surface to fix the hardware and since just about every boat in the world leaks in some way, i suspect this one will too ___ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
