re: [Bikies] FW: Seminole Interchange Signalization: Burleigh's Post of 11/01/08

2008-11-07 Thread David Vogt
The primary and oft-repeated concern we heard from our members regarding
this interchange is that the incoming bike lane on Seminole was inevitably
used as a right-turn lane by cars entering the Beltline.  This was not an
occasional occurrence, but rather, an everyday occurrence that effectively
_eliminated_ the bike lane altogether during the morning rush.  This clearly
created a safety hazard for bicyclists.

The plan that the BFW reviewed solved the primary problem at the expense of
some bike lane width.  The bike lane meets state standards for required
width.  While it would have been nice to see the full lane width retained
AND elminate the conflict with right-turning motorists, the BFW felt that
eliminating the conflict - and the safety hazard it created - was more
important.

-Original Message-
From: Barta, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:07 AM
To: Nelson, Larry
Cc: Jim Oeth (E-mail); Pamperin-Volk, Mary; Hoelker, Michael; Gust,
Jeffrey; Rampetsreiter, Michael
Subject: Seminole Interchange Signalization: [Bikies] Losing ground
comment

Hi, Larry: Per below, WisDOT coordinated fully with the local Bike
Federation, and the layout meets curent design standards for bike
accommodations. Per Mary, it is worth someone's time to check the bike
lane width in case the striping did not match the plan.

Otherwise, lots of traffic through here, many drivers in a hurry, not
surprised by conflicts due to poor driving. But overall, would still
expect the road improvements also improved ability to bike through the
interchange.


Please cc us when you reply to the e-mailer that started this string of
comments. Thanks!
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Re: [Bikies] FW: Seminole Interchange Signalization: Burleigh's Post of 11/01/08

2008-11-07 Thread Michael D. Barrett

Thanks, Robbie, I was about to post something similar. You are dead on.
-Mike



At 1:00 PM -0600 11/7/08, Robbie Webber wrote:
Larry (Nelson) - Thank you for including the full summary of 
comments. It helps to see the full back and forth discussion between 
all parties.



To the general Bikies audience:

Two things about the discussion disturb me.

1. That someone from WisDOT suggests that the comment, We don't 
know what the bike lane width was prior to reconstruction. be 
deleted. I think that is a very telling comment. I'm willing to bet 
that all the other prior lane widths were well documented and 
carefully considered when the roadway markings were considered.


2. That there was a public hearing/meeting (Jan 10, 2008) on this 
important intersection, and nothing was posted on this important 
contact mechanism for Madison-area bicyclists. I just checked my 
calendar, and the Bikies archive, and there was no post on this 
meeting. Now, possibly I should have known about it, being a city 
official, but I did not.


Several Bike Fed board members and employees are on this list, and 
yet they chose not to post this important meeting. Maybe the rest of 
the staff or board didn't know either, but at least one person 
obviously knew. Too bad, because the problems might have been 
averted had more Bikies known about the meeting.


Draw your own conclusions.

I'm sorry, I've tried to let Bike Fed get its feet back on the 
ground, and reach out to the Madison transportation biking 
community. However, it seems that the refusal to post even FYI items 
on this list has turned from clumsy ignorance of the grass roots 
power of this community to dangerously willful disregard for the 
importance of communication with the front line troops. 


To Bike Fed staff and board:

When there is a meeting, people need to know about it. It doesn't 
matter how much ones feelings have been hurt in the past by a few 
people on a list. I deal with that daily with this list, my own 
neighborhood listserv, and others I'm on. Suck it up and realize 
that this is where the activists reside. You need to use the tools 
you have.


Robbie





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re: [Bikies] FW: Seminole Interchange Signalization: Burleigh's Post of 11/01/08

2008-11-07 Thread burleigh
David,

You are exactly correct about the problem that formerly existed. However, if 
anyone had asked, my proposed solution would be to revoke the driver's licenses 
of the offending motorists, and to impound their vehicles. Including at least 
one police car I saw in the bike lane.

As a compromise, I would have settled for simply ticketing them. 

The current 'solution' doesn't address the real problem, which is careless 
driving. I've already had several cars cross over in front of me, across the 
solid white lines (as opposed to behind me, across the dashed lines).  

Unless the city is willing to ticket these drivers, all that engineering isn't 
going to make me feel safe. 

The current striping might be consistent with some definition of 'standard'. 
But I doubt that such a standard takes into account the pod people from the 
sprawl-burbs who have an overt hostility to the spandex crowd that frequents 
this road.

Also, in the south-bound lane, motorists routinely cut the corner as the road 
curves about 50 feet south of the intersection, cutting into the bike lane. 


--
=
darin 

 David Vogt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 The primary and oft-repeated concern we heard from our members regarding
 this interchange is that the incoming bike lane on Seminole was inevitably
 used as a right-turn lane by cars entering the Beltline.  This was not an
 occasional occurrence, but rather, an everyday occurrence that effectively
 _eliminated_ the bike lane altogether during the morning rush.  This clearly
 created a safety hazard for bicyclists.
 
 The plan that the BFW reviewed solved the primary problem at the expense of
 some bike lane width.  The bike lane meets state standards for required
 width.  While it would have been nice to see the full lane width retained
 AND elminate the conflict with right-turning motorists, the BFW felt that
 eliminating the conflict - and the safety hazard it created - was more
 important.
 
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Re: [Bikies] FW: Seminole Interchange Signalization: Burleigh's Post of 11/01/08

2008-11-07 Thread burleigh
Larry,

thanks for digging into this. 

For the record, anyone can verify that the lanes are indeed narrower, by 
comparing the new paint with the old paint. 

I would be interested in finding out if the striping did match the plan.
--
=
darin 

 Nelson wrote: 
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Barta, Larry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:07 AM
 To: Nelson, Larry
 Cc: Jim Oeth (E-mail); Pamperin-Volk, Mary; Hoelker, Michael; Gust,
 Jeffrey; Rampetsreiter, Michael
 Subject: Seminole Interchange Signalization: [Bikies] Losing ground
 comment
 
 Hi, Larry: Per below, WisDOT coordinated fully with the local Bike
 Federation, and the layout meets curent design standards for bike
 accommodations. Per Mary, it is worth someone's time to check the bike
 lane width in case the striping did not match the plan.

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