Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recurring bitcoin/LN payments using DLCs

2022-03-06 Thread Chris Stewart via bitcoin-dev
FWIW, the initial use case that I hinted at in the OP is for lightning. The problem this company has is they offer an inbound liquidity service, but it is common after a user purchases liquidity, the channel goes unused. This is bad for the company as their liquidity is tied up in unproductive ch

Re: [bitcoin-dev] `OP_FOLD`: A Looping Construct For Bitcoin SCRIPT

2022-03-06 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Billy, > Even changing the weight of a transaction using jets (ie making a script > weigh less if it uses a jet) could be done in a similar way to how segwit > separated the witness out. The way we did this in SegWit was to *hide* the witness from unupgraded nodes, who are then un

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recurring bitcoin/LN payments using DLCs

2022-03-06 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Chris, > >On the other hand, the above, where the oracle determines *when* the fund > >can be spent, can also be implemented by a simple 2-of-3, and called an > >"escrow". > > I think something that is underappreciated by protocol developers is the fact > that multisig requires int

Re: [bitcoin-dev] `OP_FOLD`: A Looping Construct For Bitcoin SCRIPT

2022-03-06 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
> Are new jets consensus critical? > Do I need to debate `LOT` *again* if I want to propose a new jet? New jets should never need a consensus change. A jet is just an optimization - a way to both save bytes in transmission as well as save processing power. Anything that a jet can do can be done wi

[bitcoin-dev] CTV vaults in the wild

2022-03-06 Thread James O'Beirne via bitcoin-dev
A few months ago, AJ wrote[0] > I'm not really convinced CTV is ready to start trying to deploy > on mainnet even in the next six months; I'd much rather see some real > third-party experimentation *somewhere* public first In the spirit of real third-party experimentation *somewhere* in public, I

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Annex Purpose Discussion: OP_ANNEX, Turing Completeness, and other considerations

2022-03-06 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
Hi Christian, For that purpose I'd recommend having a checksig extra that is checksigextra that allows N extra data items on the stack in addition to the txn hash. This would allow signers to sign some addtl arguments, but would not be an annex since the values would not have any consensus me

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Recurring bitcoin/LN payments using DLCs

2022-03-06 Thread Chris Stewart via bitcoin-dev
>On the other hand, the above, where the oracle determines *when* the fund can be spent, can also be implemented by a simple 2-of-3, and called an "escrow". I think something that is underappreciated by protocol developers is the fact that multisig requires interactiveness at settlement time. The

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Annex Purpose Discussion: OP_ANNEX, Turing Completeness, and other considerations

2022-03-06 Thread Christian Decker via bitcoin-dev
One thing that we recently stumbled over was that we use CLTV in eltoo not for timelock but to have a comparison between two committed numbers coming from the spent and the spending transaction (ordering requirement of states). We couldn't use a number on the stack of the scriptSig as the signature

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Annex Purpose Discussion: OP_ANNEX, Turing Completeness, and other considerations

2022-03-06 Thread Christian Decker via bitcoin-dev
We'd have to be very carefully with this kind of third-party malleability, since it'd make transaction pinning trivial without even requiring the ability to spend one of the outputs (which current CPFP based pinning attacks require). Cheers, Christian On Sat, 5 Mar 2022, 00:33 ZmnSCPxj via bitcoi