Re: [bitcoin-dev] Towards a means of measuring user support for Soft Forks

2022-04-28 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@Zman > if two people are perfectly rational and start from the same information, they *will* agree I take issue with this. I view the word "rational" to mean basically logical. Someone is rational if they advocate for things that are best for them. Two humans are not the same people. They have

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Towards a means of measuring user support for Soft Forks

2022-04-28 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@Keagan > we have to have a way (formalized or not) of deciding when the "lesser experts" in aggregate have better judgement. I agree. Its certainly convenient for development speed to limit the number of cooks in the kitchen. But for the largest cryptocurrency in the world, we're going to have

Re: [bitcoin-dev] MuSig2 BIP

2022-04-28 Thread Jonas Nick via bitcoin-dev
Happy to hear that the BIP draft is already useful and thank you, Laolu, for extracting the test vectors. > an implementation must make the _pre tweaked_ combined key available to the caller To apply the Taproot tweak with the key aggregation algorithm as specified you would have to do the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] MuSig2 BIP

2022-04-28 Thread Brandon Black via bitcoin-dev
Hi Laolu, > Finally, can you elaborate a bit on this fragment of the BIP that describes > a "short cut" when a specific signers is meant to send their nonces last: > > > Second, if there is a unique signer who is supposed to send the pubnonce > > last, it is possible to modify nonce generation

[bitcoin-dev] Conjectures on solving the high interactivity issue in payment pools and channel factories

2022-04-28 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi, This post recalls the noticeable interactivity issue encumbering payment pools and channel factories in the context of a high number of participants, describes how the problem can be understood and proposes few solutions with diverse trust-minizations and efficiency assumptions. It is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CTV Signet Parameters

2022-04-28 Thread Jeremy Rubin via bitcoin-dev
Sorry I didn't see this snippet fully earlier, but I caught it in Optech (cc harding) > *(I didn't think DROP/1 is necessary here? Doesn't leaving the 32 byte* > *hash on the stack evaluate as true? I guess that means everyone's > using**sapio to > construct the txs?)* Not quite: it would

Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Pre-BIP] Fee Accounts

2022-04-28 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 01:57:28PM -0700, Jeremy Rubin wrote: > the 'lots of people' stuff (get confused, can't figure out what i'm > quoting, actually are reading this conversation) is an appeal to an > authority that doesn't exist. If something is unclear to you, let me know. > If it's unclear

[bitcoin-dev] Multiple ways to do bitcoin covenants

2022-04-28 Thread alicexbt via bitcoin-dev
CTV and other covenant proposals, tradeoffs, and overlapping features are among the topics being explored recently. I had some views and questions on this subject.: a) Does bitcoin already have opcodes with overlapping features? Yes b) Can we have multiple ways with some overlapping features

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Towards a means of measuring user support for Soft Forks

2022-04-28 Thread Felipe Micaroni Lalli via bitcoin-dev
Hi Keagan, The worst case scenario is: no new proposals are accepted and the Bitcoin remains the same. This is not so bad. I think a bad actor will usually want to *add* (or remove) something that breaks. I don't know if the boycott of new proposals is as effective in breaking Bitcoin. It means

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Towards a means of measuring user support for Soft Forks

2022-04-28 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@Felipe > the consensus should follow the current line: discussions and tests carried out by experts. We all know that the most important devs have the most weight in discussions. And that's how it should be We have up til this point been miraculously lucky that the vast majority of prominent

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Towards a means of measuring user support for Soft Forks

2022-04-28 Thread Nadav Ivgi via bitcoin-dev
Back in the 2017 block size wars I brought up the idea [0] of using time-locked-weighted voting as a mechanism to gauge community/hodler sentiment (lived on testnet for awhile at https://hodl.voting [1]). Basically, the user locks up some bitcoins with an OP_CSV while committing to some statement