Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-15 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine, Gleb, and list, In some ways, CoinPool is really part of a swarm of ideas: * CoinPool * Multiparticipant (N > 2) channels * Channel factories * Nodelets What CoinPool and multiparticipant channels buy us is better flexibility with forwarding. For example, if we compare a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi ZmnSCPxj, > I have not studied the proposal in close detail yet, but anyway, my main takeaway roughly is: > > * The core of CoinPool is some kind of multiparticipant (N > 2) offchain update mechanism (Decker-Wattenhofer or Decker-Russell-Osuntokun). > * The output at each state of the update

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine, By dropping the requirement that a participant can seamlessly leave the CoinPool, it allows participants to split up their coins among new aliases and to use a different identity for later claiming coins. With WabiSabi, none of the other participants can get a mapping

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine, > Yes, that's part of future research, defining better *in-pool* observer. > Sadly, right now, even if you use mask construction inside, it's quite easy > to trace leaves by value weight. Of course, you can enforce equal-value > leaves, as for a regular onchain CoinJoin.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi Jeremy, For the records, I didn't know between Greg and you was at the origin of payment pools. Thanks for your pioneer work here, obviously this draws inspiration from OP_CTV use cases and Channel Factories works, even if we picked up different assumptions and tried to address another set of

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine and Gleb, I have not studied the proposal in close detail yet, but anyway, my main takeaway roughly is: * The core of CoinPool is some kind of multiparticipant (N > 2) offchain update mechanism (Decker-Wattenhofer or Decker-Russell-Osuntokun). * The output at each state

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-11 Thread Jeremy via bitcoin-dev
Stellar work Antoine and Gleb! Really excited to see designs come out on payment pools. I've also been designing some payment pools (I have some not ready code I can share with you guys off list), and I wanted to share what I learned here in case it's useful. In my design of payment pools, I

[bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-11 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi list, We (Gleb Naumenko + I) think that a wide range of second-layer protocols (LN, vaults, inheritance, etc) will be used by average Bitcoin users. We are interested in finding and addressing the privacy issues coming from the unique fingerprints these protocols bring. More specifically, we