Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-03-08 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation Concept nack. This has no advantage over bip8(true). Bip9(false) is just bip9. Thr only reasonable argument against bip8(true) is "some people may do bip8(false) instead", which is a stypid argument applyable to any activation method.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-03-08 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
Concept nack. This has no advantage over bip8(true). Bip9(false) is just bip9. Thr only reasonable argument against bip8(true) is "some people may do bip8(false) instead", which is a stypid argument applyable to any activation method. People against taproot should want code to forbid its activatio

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-03-06 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, Mar 03, 2021 at 11:49:57AM -0500, Matt Corallo wrote: > On 3/3/21 09:59, Anthony Towns wrote: > > A couple of days ago I would have disagreed with this; but with Luke > > now strongly pushing against implementing lot=false, I can at least see > > your point... > Right. It may be the case th

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-03-03 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
On 3/3/21 09:59, Anthony Towns wrote: I think it would be worthwhile to also update getblocktemplate so that miners signal uptake for something like three or four retarget periods prior to activation, without that signalling having any consensus-level effect. That should allow miners and busin

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-03-03 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 11:45:22AM -0500, Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Given this, it seems one way to keep the network in consensus would be to > simply activate taproot through a traditional, no-frills, flag-day (or > -height) activation with a flag day of roughly August, 2022. Going bac

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
I think it has been shown that an understanding of reasonableness is not universal, making any assertion about it as a collective goal kind of self-defeating. The question is what is achievable, not what is reasonable. I’m not making any value judgements here. Simply pointing out that anything o

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
In the attempt to change consensus rules there is a simple set of choices: 1) hard fork: creates a chain split 2) soft fork: creates a chain split 3) 51% attack: does not create a chain split The presumption being that one can never assume 100% explicit adoption of any rule change. A 51% attack

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
Glad you asked! Yes, your goal here is #4 on the list of goals I laid out at [1], which I referenced and specifically addressed each of in the OP of this thread. [1] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2020-January/017547.html On 2/28/21 15:19, Eric Voskuil wrote: In the a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
SPV mining has been curtailed somewhat to only apply for a brief period of time (based on public statements) since the last time SPV mining caused a fork. Indeed, if you can make other miners mine on top of an invalid block, you can make money by reducing the difficulty, but that is true as much

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Jeremy via bitcoin-dev
Miners still can generate invalid blocks as a result of SPV mining, and it could be profitable to do "bad block enhanced selfish mining" to take advantage of it. Hard to analyze exactly what that looks like, but... E.g., suppose 20% is un-upgraded and 80% is upgraded. Taking 25% hashrate to mine

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
Note further that mandatory signaling isn't "just" a flag day - unlike a Taproot flag day (where miners running Bitcoin Core unmodified today will not generate invalid blocks), a mandatory signaling flag day blatantly ignores goal (3) from my original post - it results in any miner who has not ta

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Jeremy via bitcoin-dev
I agree with much of the logic presented by Matt here. BIP8 was intended to be simpler to agree on to maintain consensus, yet we find ourselves in a situation where a "tiny" parameter has the potential to cause great network disruption and confusion (rationality is not too useful a concept here gi

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
I think you may have misunderstood my proposal. I'm not suggesting some people run BIP 8(true), some run BIP8(false), and some run a client which has a flag day, I'm suggesting a flag day activation instead of any BIP8-based activation. Replies to your further points inline. Matt On 2/28/21 12

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev
On Sunday 28 February 2021 16:45:22 Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > many individuals are committing themselves to running > incompatible consensus rules. Yet that is exactly what you propose herein... > Given this, it seems one way to keep the network in consensus would be to > simply activ

[bitcoin-dev] Straight Flag Day (Height) Taproot Activation

2021-02-28 Thread Matt Corallo via bitcoin-dev
As anyone reading this list is aware, there is significant debate around the activation method for the proposed Taproot soft fork. So much so, and with so much conviction, that many individuals are committing themselves to running incompatible consensus rules. Obviously, such commitments, were th