Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:23 PM, Jorge Timón wrote: > Greg, I believe Jeff is focusing on BtcDrak's proposal ( > https://gist.github.com/btcdrak/1c3a323100a912b605b5 ) where the > increased nBits are used to vote for the block size to raise > permanently ( or until it gets voted down). > His argume

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Btc Drak via bitcoin-dev
Maybe Jeff can clarify but my communications with him seemed to imply he didn't think any kind of difficulty penalty scheme is workable. I strongly dispute that assertion. On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Jorge Timón wrote: > Greg, I believe Jeff is focusing on BtcDrak's proposal ( > https://gist.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread jl2012 via bitcoin-dev
Assuming that: 1. The current block size is 1MB 2. The block reward for a full block is 25.5BTC including tx fee 3. Miner is required to pay x% of reward penalty if he is trying to increase the size of the next block by x% If a miner wants to increase the block size by 1 byte, the block size h

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Tom Harding via bitcoin-dev
On 9/2/2015 9:05 PM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev wrote: Schemes proposing to pay with difficulty / hashpower to change block size should be avoided. The miners incentive has always been fairly straightforward - it is rational to deploy new hashpower as soon as you can get it online. Introduci

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
Greg, I believe Jeff is focusing on BtcDrak's proposal ( https://gist.github.com/btcdrak/1c3a323100a912b605b5 ) where the increased nBits are used to vote for the block size to raise permanently ( or until it gets voted down). His arguments don't seem to apply to your original proposal (where the s

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > Expanding on pay-with-diff and volatility (closing comment), > > Users and miners will have significant difficulty creating and/or predicting > a stable block size (and fee environment) with pay-with-diff across the > months. The ability of bus

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
Expanding on pay-with-diff and volatility (closing comment), Users and miners will have significant difficulty creating and/or predicting a stable block size (and fee environment) with pay-with-diff across the months. The ability of businesses to plan is low. Chaos and unpredictability are bad i

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
It's written as 'a' and/or 'b'. If you don't have idle hashpower, then paying with difficulty requires some amount of collusion ('a') Any miner paying with a higher difficulty either needs idle hashpower, or self-increase their own difficulty at the possible *opportunity cost* of losing an entire

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-03 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
Thanks for the link. I readily admit only having given pay-to-future-miner a little bit of thought. Not convinced it sets a minimal tx fee in all cases. On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 12:55 AM, wrote: > Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-09-03 00:05 寫到: > >> Schemes proposing to pay with difficulty /

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-02 Thread Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:05 AM, Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev wrote: > (b) requiring miners to have idle > hashpower on hand to change block size are both unrealistic and potentially I really cannot figure out how you could characterize pay with difficty has in any way involving idle hashpower. Ca

Re: [bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-02 Thread jl2012 via bitcoin-dev
Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev 於 2015-09-03 00:05 寫到: Schemes proposing to pay with difficulty / hashpower to change block size should be avoided. The miners incentive has always been fairly straightforward - it is rational to deploy new hashpower as soon as you can get it online. Introducing the

[bitcoin-dev] block size - pay with difficulty

2015-09-02 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
Schemes proposing to pay with difficulty / hashpower to change block size should be avoided. The miners incentive has always been fairly straightforward - it is rational to deploy new hashpower as soon as you can get it online. Introducing the concepts of (a) requiring out-of-band collusion to ch