Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-13 Thread pool2win via bitcoin-dev
Hi Filippo, If a malicious miner, M broadcasts {m1, m2 ... mn} at a regular interval, *and* also broadcasts {m1*, mn*} where mn* is bitcoin block then M will cheat all other miners of their reward. You correctly identified this attack. The problem stems from the fact that I wanted to use the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-11 Thread Filippo Merli via bitcoin-dev
>From my understanding of the posted proposal, a share to get rewarded must "prove" to be created before the rewarded share. (between L and R) If GOOD3 refers to BAD2 the only thing that I can prove is that BAD2 has been mined before GOOD2. So if BAD3 is a valid block (I call it R like in the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-10 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Filippo, > Hi! > > From the proposal it is not clear why a miner must reference other miners' > shares in his shares. > What I mean is that there is a huge incentive for a rogue miner to not > reference any share from > other miner so he won't share the reward with anyone, but it

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-10 Thread Filippo Merli via bitcoin-dev
Hi! >From the proposal it is not clear why a miner must reference other miners' shares in his shares. What I mean is that there is a huge incentive for a rogue miner to not reference any share from other miner so he won't share the reward with anyone, but it will be paid for the share that he

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-08 Thread pool2win via bitcoin-dev
> A thing I just realized about Braidpool is that the payout server is still a > single central point-of-failure. > However, this probably complicates the design too much, and it may be more > beneficial to get *something* working now. You have hit the nail on the head here and Chris Belcher's

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-07 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning all, A thing I just realized about Braidpool is that the payout server is still a single central point-of-failure. Although the paper claims to use Tor hidden service to protect against DDoS attacks, its centrality still cannot protect against sheer accident. What happens if some

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-06 Thread Prayank via bitcoin-dev
> How would you compare this to Stratum v2? Stratum v2 will help miners with encryption, broadcasting new blocks, signalling bits, choose transactions set, however the mining pools can still reject negotiations and censor payments. Maybe Stratum v2 can be used in combination with other things

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-06 Thread pool2win via bitcoin-dev
I see Braidpool as an improvement to P2Pool - i.e. make a peer to peer pool work at scale. This is in contrast to Stratum v2, which brings some very good and much needed engineering improvements to centralised pools. Specifically about transaction selection in Stratum V2, as far as I

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-06 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
Switching pools has always been possible. But the largest pool is the most profitable, and centralized pools are easily controlled. Decoupling selection without decoupling payout is an engineering change without a pooling pressure change. e > On Sep 6, 2021, at 10:01, David A. Harding wrote:

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-06 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On Mon, Sep 06, 2021 at 09:29:01AM +0200, Eric Voskuil wrote: > It doesn’t centralize payment, which ultimately controls transaction > selection (censorship). Yeah, but if you get paid after each share via LN and you can switch pools instantly, then the worst case with centralized pools is that

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-06 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
It doesn’t centralize payment, which ultimately controls transaction selection (censorship). e > On Sep 6, 2021, at 08:25, David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev > wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 01, 2021 at 11:46:55PM -0700, Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev wrote: >> How would you compare this to Stratum v2?

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-06 Thread David A. Harding via bitcoin-dev
On Wed, Sep 01, 2021 at 11:46:55PM -0700, Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev wrote: > How would you compare this to Stratum v2? Specifically, I'd be interested in learning what advantages this has over a centralized mining pool using BetterHash or StratumV2 with payouts made via LN (perhaps immediately

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Braidpool: Proposal for a decentralised mining pool

2021-09-02 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
How would you compare this to Stratum v2? On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 1:02 AM pool2win via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > We have been working on a peer to peer mining pool that overcomes the > problems faced by P2Pool and enables building a futures market for >