Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-07-13 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
Hello, On 7/13/2017 9:17 AM, Hampus Sjöberg wrote: > In softforks, I would argue that 100% of all nodes and miners need to > upgrade to the new rules. > This makes sure that trying to incorrectly spend an "AnyOneCanSpend" > will result in a hardfork, instead of a temporary (or permanent) >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-07-13 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
Greg is still conflating two different usages of the word "theft": 1. Whether the soft fork rules have been followed, and 2. Whether the WT^ submitted by a majority hashrate matches the one calculated by sidechain nodes. In his message he claims to uniquely adopt definition #2, saying (emphasis

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-07-12 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
The confusion below stems from his conflation of several different ideas. I will try to explicitly clarify a distinction between several types of user (or, "modes" of use if you prefer): [DC#0] -- Someone who does not upgrade their Bitcoin software (and is running, say, 0.13). However, they

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-07-12 Thread Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev
Paul, I'm assuming it's OK with you that I pick up from where we left off in the "Scaling Roadmap" thread [1], so as to be on-topic per your request. (For others reading, part of my reply to the previous email in this thread is here [2]). For reference, I said: > Isn't it different in the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-23 Thread Moral Agent via bitcoin-dev
>Miners who are able to deal with the bandwidth caused by drivechain coffee transactions will profit from these transactions, whereas smaller and more geographically distributed miners will not. Those miners will, in turn, build faster ASICs and buy more electricity and drive out smaller

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-23 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
> They would certainly not be cheap, because they are relatively more expensive due to the extra depreciation cost. This depends on how long you expect to keep money on a side chain and how many transactions you plan on doing. Inflation is a great way of paying PoS / PoB miners - that cannot

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-22 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
Hi Erik, I don't think that your design is competitive. Why would users tolerate a depreciation of X% per year, when there are alternatives which do not require such depreciation? It seems to me that none would. Paul On 6/20/2017 9:38 AM, Erik Aronesty wrote: > - a proof-of-burn sidechain is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-20 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
- a proof-of-burn sidechain is the ultimate two-way peg. you have to burn bitcoin *or* side-chain tokens to mine the side chain. the size of the burn is the degree of security.i actually wrote code to do randomized blind burns where you have a poisson distribution (non-deterministic

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-20 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
Hi Erik, As you know: 1. If a sidechain is merged mined it basically grows out of the existing Bitcoin mining network. If it has a different PoW algorithm it is a new mining network. 2. The security (ie, hashrate) of any mining network would be determined by the total economic value of the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-19 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
Hi Greg, Responses below: On 6/18/2017 5:30 PM, Tao Effect wrote: > In Drivechain, 51% of miners have total control and ownership over all > of the sidechain coins. It would not be accurate to say that miners have "total" control. Miners do control the destination of withdrawals, but they do

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Drivechain RfD -- Follow Up

2017-06-18 Thread Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev
In Drivechain, 51% of miners have total control and ownership over all of the sidechain coins. The vision of Drivechain is to have many blockchains "plugged in" to the main chain. Today, well over 51% of miners are under the jurisdiction of a single government. Thus the effect of Drivechain