Re: [bitcoin-dev] Segregated Witness in the context of Scaling Bitcoin

2015-12-18 Thread Mark Friedenbach via bitcoin-dev
Not entirely correct, no. Edge cases also matter. Segwit is described as 4MB because that is the largest possible combined block size that can be constructed. BIP 102 + segwit would allow a maximum relay of 8MB. So you have to be confident that an 8MB relay size would be acceptable, even if a block

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
On Dec 18, 2015 9:43 PM, "Peter Todd" wrote: > FWIW all these median time based schemes should be using median time past: the point is to use a time that the block creator has no direct control of, while still tying the rule to wall clock time for planning purposes. Well, if after the "planned cl

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 18 December 2015 11:52:19 GMT-08:00, "Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev" wrote: >I agree that nHeight is the simplest option and is my preference. >Another option is to use the median time from the previous block FWIW all these median time based s

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
I believe the attacks are the same for height or median time of the prev block are equal, only the time of the current block has more edge cases. On Dec 18, 2015 9:15 PM, "Jeff Garzik" wrote: > My preference is height activation + one step per block (i.e. also > height). Height seems KISS. > > A

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
My preference is height activation + one step per block (i.e. also height). Height seems KISS. AFAICT most of the attacks would occur around the already-heavily-watched flag day activation event, in a height based environment, a useful attribute. However I would like to hear from others about po

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
Well, if it's not going to be height, I think median time of the previous block is better than the time of the current one, and would also solve Chun Wang's concerns. But as said I prefer to use heights that correspond to diff recalculation (because that's the window that bip9 will use for the late

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
>From a code standpoint, based off height is easy. My first internal version triggered on block 406,800 (~May 5), and each block increased by 20 bytes thereafter. It was changed to time, because time was the standard used in years past for other changes; MTP flag day is more stable than block hei

Re: [bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
I agree that nHeight is the simplest option and is my preference. Another option is to use the median time from the previous block (thus you know whether or not the next block should start the miner confirmation or not). In fact, if we're going to use bip9 for 95% miner upgrade confirmation, it wo

[bitcoin-dev] The increase of max block size should be determined by block height instead of block time

2015-12-18 Thread Chun Wang via bitcoin-dev
In many BIPs we have seen, include the latest BIP202, it is the block time that determine the max block size. From from pool's point of view, it cannot issue a job with a fixed ntime due to the existence of ntime roll. It is hard to issue a job with the max block size unknown. For developers, it is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & moral hazard

2015-12-18 Thread Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev
On Dec 18, 2015 2:13 AM, "sick...@gmail.com" wrote: > 1.75 x 0.5 + 1 x 0.5 = 1.375 > > after six month. > > An hard-fork on the others side would bring 1.75 since the activation, am I right? Yes. However, SW immediately gives a 1.75 capacity increase for anyone who adopts it, after the softfork,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & moral hazard

2015-12-18 Thread Jeff Garzik via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 2:56 AM, Pieter Wuille wrote: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> You present this as if the Bitcoin Core development team is in charge > >> of deciding the network consensus rules, and is responsible for making > >> changes to it in order to satisf

Re: [bitcoin-dev] On the security of softforks

2015-12-18 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 03:02:36AM +, Eric Lombrozo via bitcoin-dev wrote: > First of all, that's an expensive beer! > > Second of all, any consensus rule change risks non-full-validating > or non-upgraded nodes seeing invalid confirmations...but assuming a > large supermajority (i.e. > 95%) o

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & moral hazard

2015-12-18 Thread sickpig--- via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Pieter Wuille via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > > - only assuming robust adoption rates by up-layer ecosystem software, and > > That's not required. Everyone who individually switches to new > transactions gets to do 1.75x more tra

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Segregated Witness in the context of Scaling Bitcoin

2015-12-18 Thread sickpig--- via bitcoin-dev
Anthony, On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:55 PM, Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 04:51:19PM +0100, sickpig--- via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Jorge Timón wrote: > > > Unless I'm missing something, 2 mb x

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Block size: It's economics & user preparation & moral hazard

2015-12-18 Thread Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 7:44 PM, Peter Todd wrote: > If Bitcoin remains decentralized, miners have veto power over any > blocksize increases. You can always soft-fork in a blocksize reduction > in a decentralized blockchain that actually works. > The actual users of the system have significant p