Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread s7r via bitcoin-dev
Andrew Johnson wrote: > "You miss something obvious that makes this attack actually free of cost. > Nothing will "cost them more in transaction fees". A miner can create > thousands of transactions paying to himself, and not broadcast them to > the network, but hold them and include them in the blo

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread t. khan via bitcoin-dev
The assumption you're making is incorrect. There is not an infinite number of low-fee transactions. Yes, the average fee will go down compared to today with Block75, but this will balance itself between demand and the minimum fee miners are willing to accept (not zero). For example, add 200kb to

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread James Hilliard via bitcoin-dev
I think the main thing you're missing is that there will always be transactions available to mine simply because demand for blockspace is effectively unbounded as fees approach 0. Nodes generally have a static mempool size and dynamic minrelaytxfee nowadays so as transactions get mined lower fee tr

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread Bram Cohen via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 1:40 PM, t. khan via bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote: > > Block75 is not exponential scaling. It's true the max theoretical increase > in the first year would be 7x, but the next year would be a max of 2x, and > the next could only increase by 50%

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread t. khan via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 3:31 PM, James Hilliard wrote: > What's most likely to happen is miners will max out the blocks they > mine simply to try and get as many transaction fees as possible like > they are doing right now(there will be a backlog of transactions at > any block size). Having the b

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread Andrew Johnson via bitcoin-dev
"You miss something obvious that makes this attack actually free of cost. Nothing will "cost them more in transaction fees". A miner can create thousands of transactions paying to himself, and not broadcast them to the network, but hold them and include them in the blocks he mines. The fees are col

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread James Hilliard via bitcoin-dev
What's most likely to happen is miners will max out the blocks they mine simply to try and get as many transaction fees as possible like they are doing right now(there will be a backlog of transactions at any block size). Having the block size double every year would likely cause major problems and

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread t. khan via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 12:11 PM, s7r wrote: > > This is an incentive, if few miners agree to create a large conglomerate > that will ultimately control the network. > > You miss something obvious that makes this attack actually free of cost. > Nothing will "cost them more in transaction fees". A

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread s7r via bitcoin-dev
t. khan wrote: > Miners 'gaming' the Block75 system - > There is no financial incentive for miners to attempt to game the > Block75 system. Even if it were attempted and assuming the goal was to > create bigger blocks, the maximum possible increase would be 25% over > the previous block size. And

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Forcenet: an experimental network with a new header format

2016-12-11 Thread Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Luke Dashjr wrote: > On Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:29:09 PM Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Any new merkle algorithm should use a sum tree for partial validation and > > fraud proofs. > > PR welcome. > Fair enough. It is pretty basic. https://github.co

[bitcoin-dev] Handing over the torch of qsafe

2016-12-11 Thread Alonzo Coeus via bitcoin-dev
Good Afternoon I'm writing this to ask the other bitcoin developers to carry the torch of a project/bip I have been working on more specifically a set of new op_codes to allow data efficient quantum proof transactions on the bitcoin network.   Sadly due to unforeseen circumstances my skills a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Managing block size the same way we do difficulty (aka Block75)

2016-12-11 Thread Adam Back via bitcoin-dev
Well I think empirical game-theory observed on the network involves more types of strategy than honest vs dishonest. At least 4, maybe 5 types of strategy and I would argue lumping the strategies together results in incorrect game theory conclusions and predictions. A) altruistic players (protoco