Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Peter, > > On April 22, 2022 11:03:51 AM GMT+02:00, Zac Greenwood via bitcoin-dev > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote: > > > I like the maxim of Peter Todd: any change of Bitcoin must benefit all > > users. This means that every change must have well-defined and transparent

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Automatically reverting ("transitory") soft forks, e.g. for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Dave, et al., I have not read through *all* the mail on this thread, but have read a fair amount of it. I think the main argument *for* this particular idea is that "it allows the use of real-world non-toy funds to prove that this feature is something actual users demand". An ide

Re: [bitcoin-dev] ANYPREVOUT in place of CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Richard Myers via bitcoin-dev
Hi darosior, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. > I would like to know people's sentiment about doing (a very slightly tweaked > version of) BIP118 in place of > (or before doing) BIP119. Sounds good to me. Although from an activation perspective it may not be either/or, both proposals

Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:17 PM Michael Folkson < michaelfolk...@protonmail.com> wrote: > Hi Jorge > > > Can we agree now that resisting a bip8 proposal is simpler and cleaner > than resisting a speedy trial proposal? > > Personally I'd rather stick to one challenge at a time :) Currently we are >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:56 PM Ryan Grant wrote: > Michael and Jorge, > > It is ethically inappropriate to make personal attacks on the > trustworthiness of participants on this list, on such vague grounds as > disliking an activation proposal! > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assum

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Speedy Trial

2022-04-24 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
You're not even considering user resistance in your cases. You're purely relying on miners and calling speedy trial superior. I don't know if you're being obtuse on purpose, I'm explaining myself very badly... I DON'T WANT TO RELY ON MINERS TO RESIST CHANGES I DON'T WANT TO. Sorry for the tone, bu

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Speedy Trial

2022-04-24 Thread Jorge Timón via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 2:14 PM Anthony Towns wrote: > On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 12:13:08PM +0100, Jorge Timón wrote: > > You're not even considering user resistance in your cases. > > Of course I am. Again: > No, you're relying on miners to stop bad proposals. > > > My claim is that for *any* b

Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Michael Folkson via bitcoin-dev
Hi Jorge > Can we agree now that resisting a bip8 proposal is simpler and cleaner than > resisting a speedy trial proposal? Personally I'd rather stick to one challenge at a time :) Currently we are facing a contentious soft fork activation attempt of CTV using an alternative client which we e

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Automatically reverting ("transitory") soft forks, e.g. for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On April 21, 2022 5:10:02 AM GMT+02:00, alicexbt via bitcoin-dev wrote: >@DavidHarding > >Interesting proposal to revert consensus changes. Is it possible to do this >for soft forks that are already activated? > >Example: Some users are not okay with witness discount in segwit transactions >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On April 22, 2022 11:03:51 AM GMT+02:00, Zac Greenwood via bitcoin-dev wrote: >I like the maxim of Peter Todd: any change of Bitcoin must benefit *all* >users. This means that every change must have well-defined and transparent >benefits. Personally I believe that the only additions to the prot

Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 1:12 PM Jorge Timón wrote: > [...all context chopped, mid-sentence...] > I think it is against the spirit of the project to trust ideas based on who > they come from. On this we agree! ___ bitcoin-dev mailing list bitcoin-dev@li

Re: [bitcoin-dev] User Resisted Soft Fork for CTV

2022-04-24 Thread Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev
Michael and Jorge, It is ethically inappropriate to make personal attacks on the trustworthiness of participants on this list, on such vague grounds as disliking an activation proposal! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith It is against the spirit of the project to base yo

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Speedy Trial

2022-04-24 Thread Anthony Towns via bitcoin-dev
On Sun, Apr 24, 2022 at 12:13:08PM +0100, Jorge Timón wrote: > You're not even considering user resistance in your cases. Of course I am. Again: > > My claim is that for *any* bad (evil, flawed, whatever) softfork, then > > attempting activation via bip8 is *never* superior to speedy trial, > >