Re: [bitcoin-dev] Playing with full-rbf peers for fun and L2s security

2022-07-08 Thread alicexbt via bitcoin-dev
Hi Peter, > Point is, the attacker is thousands of UTXOs can also DoS rounds by simply > failing to complete the round. In fact, the double-spend DoS attack requires > more resources, because for a double-spend to be succesful, BTC has to be > spent > on fees. > > It's just a fact of life that a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] TAPLEAF_UPDATE_VERIFY covenant opcode

2022-07-08 Thread Tim Ruffing via bitcoin-dev
Hi aj, I think there's another workaround for the x-only issue with TAPLEAF_UPDATE_VERIFY. So the opcode will need a function f that ensures that the new internal key f(P'), where P' = P + X, has even y. You describe what happens for the canonical choice of f(P') = if has_even_y(P') then P' else

[bitcoin-dev] BIP draft: Half-Aggregation of BIP-340 Signatures

2022-07-08 Thread Jonas Nick via bitcoin-dev
Half-aggregation has been mentioned several times on this list in various contexts. To have a solid basis for discussing applications of half-aggregation, I think it's helpful to have a concrete specification of the scheme and a place for collecting supplemental information like references to cryp

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-07-08 Thread Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev
On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 8:29 PM Eric Voskuil wrote: > Value is subjective, though a constraint of 1tx per 10 minutes seems > unlikey to create a fee of 5000x that of 5000tx. This is of course why I > stated my assumption. Yet this simple example should make clear that at > some point a reduction i

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Playing with full-rbf peers for fun and L2s security

2022-07-08 Thread Greg Sanders via bitcoin-dev
The attacker isn't guaranteed to spend *any* funds to disrupt the protocol indefinitely, that's the issue here. In this scenario, her input double spend is at an impractical feerate, and is never included in a block, sitting at the bottom of the mempool. The other users' only practical choice is t

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Playing with full-rbf peers for fun and L2s security

2022-07-08 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev
On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 08:46:51PM +, alicexbt wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > Note that Wasabi already has a DoS attack vector in that a participant can > > stop > > participating after the first phase of the round, with the result that the > > coinjoin fails. Wasabi mitigates that by punishing par

Re: [bitcoin-dev] No Order Mnemonic

2022-07-08 Thread James MacWhyte via bitcoin-dev
> What do you do if the "first" word (of 12), happens to be the last word in > the list alphabetically? > That couldn't happen. If one word is the very last from the wordlist, it would end up at the end of your mnemonic once you rearrange your 12 words alphabetically. However! (@vjudeu) Choosing

Re: [bitcoin-dev] No Order Mnemonic

2022-07-08 Thread Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev
What do you do if the "first" word (of 12), happens to be the last word in the list alphabetically? So that seems like a dead end. Since users are never expected to memorize the "whole list" (of 2048 words) in any case, it seems that the smarter thing to do (if this "order" criterion is desirable)

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-07-08 Thread John Carvalho via bitcoin-dev
vju...@gazeta.pl, what you describe is not possible without a hard fork, just like Eric said. There is no atomic way to move Bitcoin off of Bitcoin. You can use Bitcoin txns, or you can use trust/custody, or you can make a shitcoin. There is no way to actually divide or transfer sats to another ne

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-07-08 Thread vjudeu via bitcoin-dev
> Simply fork off an inflation coin and test your theory. I mean, that’s the > only way it can happen anyway. That would be an altcoin. But it can be done in a simpler way: we have 21 million coins. It doesn't matter if it is 21 million, if it is 100 million, or if it is in some normalized rang

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable

2022-07-08 Thread Billy Tetrud via bitcoin-dev
@vjudeu > better to allow transaction joining.. to make fees more smoothly I'm not familiar with RSK transaction joining. However, I don't think this addresses the issues Corey brought up - which is that the appropriate amount of security (ie miner revenue) isn't linked with any bitcoin market beh

Re: [bitcoin-dev] No Order Mnemonic

2022-07-08 Thread vjudeu via bitcoin-dev
Isn't it enough to just generate a seed in the same way as today, then sort the words alphabetically, and then use that as a seed? I know, the last word is a checksum, but there are only 2048 words, so it is not a big deal to get any checksum we want. If that is insecure, because of lower possib