Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-18 Thread Daniel Wilczynski via bitcoin-dev
Hi Dan. What might be better aim is to have built in wipeout protection? In softfork scenario this would protect a majority threatening a minority with a wipeout if they do not opt in to some soft-fork consensus change. This could be partly done done by having automoated consensus critical

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-16 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
re not blacklisting. >> >> But the principle is there. We may already be in a softfork whose rules >> we do not know, and it just so happens that all our transactions today >> do not violate those rules. It is impossible for us to know this, but >> it is very unlikely.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-16 Thread Dan Libby via bitcoin-dev
On 09/15/2017 01:40 PM, Simone Bronzini wrote: > Since a soft-fork is a restriction of the consensus rules, I think the > only way to have an un-soft-forkable cryptocurrency is creating a > cryptocurrency where no transaction is valid. > > Imagine I build a very minimal cryptocurrency where in

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Andrew Poelstra via bitcoin-dev
On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:40:12PM +0200, Simone Bronzini via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Since a soft-fork is a restriction of the consensus rules, I think the > only way to have an un-soft-forkable cryptocurrency is creating a > cryptocurrency where no transaction is valid. > Even this can be

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Dan Libby via bitcoin-dev
Thanks for this link. From my reading though, it seems that only soft-forks that attempt to freeze funds are problematic on ethereum. >From the article: > The soft fork creates a new and fundamentally different class of > transactions in contrast with those that currently exist within the >

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Simone Bronzini via bitcoin-dev
g. >> >> But the principle is there. We may already be in a softfork whose rules >> we do not know, and it just so happens that all our transactions today >> do not violate those rules. It is impossible for us to know this, but >> it is very unlikely. >> >&g

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Dan Libby via bitcoin-dev
On 09/15/2017 02:14 AM, Adam Back wrote: > However most types of soft fork are opt-in... my concern is that the community can be manipulated via political means. marketing, social media, payoffs, fud, etc, etc, etc. And essentially degrades to tyranny of the majority. So if there is any way

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Dan Libby via bitcoin-dev
t; Thus, if everyone else is entering a soft fork and we are oblivious, we > do not even know about it. Whereas, if everyone else is entering a hard > fork, we will immediately see (and reject) invalid transactions and blocks. > > Thus the only way to prevent soft fork is to hard fork against the

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Tier Nolan via bitcoin-dev
> Thus, if everyone else is entering a soft fork and we are oblivious, we do >> not even know about it. Whereas, if everyone else is entering a hard fork, >> we will immediately see (and reject) invalid transactions and blocks. >> >> Thus the only way to prevent soft fork

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread Adam Back via bitcoin-dev
d blocks. > > Thus the only way to prevent soft fork is to hard fork against the new > soft fork, like Bcash did. > > Regards, > ZmnSCPxj > > Original Message > Subject: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented? > Local Time: Sept

Re: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-15 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
against the new soft fork, like Bcash did. Regards, ZmnSCPxj Original Message Subject: [bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented? Local Time: September 13, 2017 5:50 PM UTC Time: September 13, 2017 9:50 AM From: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org To: Bitcoin

[bitcoin-dev] hypothetical: Could soft-forks be prevented?

2017-09-14 Thread Dan Libby via bitcoin-dev
Hi, I am interested in the possibility of a cryptocurrency software (future bitcoin or a future altcoin) that strives to have immutable consensus rules. The goal of such a cryptocurrency would not be to have the latest and greatest tech, but rather to be a long-term store of value and to offer