Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-15 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine, Gleb, and list, In some ways, CoinPool is really part of a swarm of ideas: * CoinPool * Multiparticipant (N > 2) channels * Channel factories * Nodelets What CoinPool and multiparticipant channels buy us is better flexibility with forwarding. For example, if we compare a

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi ZmnSCPxj, > I have not studied the proposal in close detail yet, but anyway, my main takeaway roughly is: > > * The core of CoinPool is some kind of multiparticipant (N > 2) offchain update mechanism (Decker-Wattenhofer or Decker-Russell-Osuntokun). > * The output at each state of the update

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine, By dropping the requirement that a participant can seamlessly leave the CoinPool, it allows participants to split up their coins among new aliases and to use a different identity for later claiming coins. With WabiSabi, none of the other participants can get a mapping

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine, > Yes, that's part of future research, defining better *in-pool* observer. > Sadly, right now, even if you use mask construction inside, it's quite easy > to trace leaves by value weight. Of course, you can enforce equal-value > leaves, as for a regular onchain CoinJoin.

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev
Hi Jeremy, For the records, I didn't know between Greg and you was at the origin of payment pools. Thanks for your pioneer work here, obviously this draws inspiration from OP_CTV use cases and Channel Factories works, even if we picked up different assumptions and tried to address another set of

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-12 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev
Good morning Antoine and Gleb, I have not studied the proposal in close detail yet, but anyway, my main takeaway roughly is: * The core of CoinPool is some kind of multiparticipant (N > 2) offchain update mechanism (Decker-Wattenhofer or Decker-Russell-Osuntokun). * The output at each state

Re: [bitcoin-dev] CoinPool, exploring generic payment pools for Fun and Privacy

2020-06-11 Thread Jeremy via bitcoin-dev
Stellar work Antoine and Gleb! Really excited to see designs come out on payment pools. I've also been designing some payment pools (I have some not ready code I can share with you guys off list), and I wanted to share what I learned here in case it's useful. In my design of payment pools, I