Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-04-02 Thread Aymeric Vitte via bitcoin-dev 
Right and everybody knows that Tether is the most clever sidechain ever 
invented far more sophisticated than lightning, which makes me think 
that a punishment should be added in the proposal for the cheater 
advertising a price < 50 k (or 100) and/or selling before 1-3 years 
(tbd) so all his coins go to the Bitcoin Mediator, a new notion here to 
sustain the community (I modestly apply for the position)



Le 01/04/2019 à 13:50, Dana L. Coe via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
I suggest in the spirit of the times that we not use USD as the 
reference, but USDT.


Everyone knows Tethers are much more flexible in tracking the true 
value of the US dollar.


Dana

On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev 
> wrote:




On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 02:32, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev 
> wrote:


Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
unreasonably
low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even
driven the
price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much
more than
that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.

In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to
add a
signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to
softfork a
minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.

The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this
email for
convenience:
https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki

https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki

A reference implementation is here:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k

Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core
v0.18.


This seems a little arbitrary.  Ask yourself, "Why the USD?".  Yes, 
it is the dominant currency now, but in 2, 6, 10, 14 years?  Who knows.


You could make equally an argument to denominate in euros.  Or a 
basket of currencies, or even the Bancor.


However the wider question is why even denominate in fiat at all?

I suggest denominating the minimum value in satoshsis themselves, 
which would be a negligable upgrade to the network.



Luke



  BIP: ?
  Layer: Applications
  Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
  Author: Luke Dashjr mailto:luke%2b...@dashjr.org>>
  Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
  Comments-URI:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
  Status: Draft
  Type: Standards Track
  Created: 2019-04-01
  License: BSD-2-Clause


==Abstract==

This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the
USD/BTC price
for transactions.

==Copyright==

This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.

==Motivation==

Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
unreasonably low
prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even
driven the price
down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
that, and
there is widespread support for higher prices.

This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for
bitcoins.
Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely
oblivious to the
price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a
field to Bitcoin
transactions to indicate their price.

==Specification==

===New field and legal implication===

A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if
present, must
represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the
transaction. By
signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the
valuation of
bitcoins used for the transaction.

For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a
currency other
than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up
with the USD
valuation.

===Serialisation===

When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including
signing, weight
calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by
one. Prior to
the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:

* Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
* A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the
inserted data
* Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
* A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the
inserted data
* The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed
integer
serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as
necessary to
preserve the sign bit).

==Backwards compatibility==

===Consensus===

The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value
of zero, and
a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes
will ignore
this dummy

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-04-01 Thread Dana L. Coe via bitcoin-dev 
I suggest in the spirit of the times that we not use USD as the reference, but 
USDT.

Everyone knows Tethers are much more flexible in tracking the true value of the 
US dollar.

Dana

> On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:22 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 02:32, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev 
>  > wrote:
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
> 
> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
> 
> The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for 
> convenience:
>   https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki 
> 
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki
>  
> 
> 
> A reference implementation is here:
>   https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k 
> 
> 
> Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.
> 
> This seems a little arbitrary.  Ask yourself, "Why the USD?".  Yes, it is the 
> dominant currency now, but in 2, 6, 10, 14 years?  Who knows.
> 
> You could make equally an argument to denominate in euros.  Or a basket of 
> currencies, or even the Bancor.
> 
> However the wider question is why even denominate in fiat at all?  
> 
> I suggest denominating the minimum value in satoshsis themselves, which would 
> be a negligable upgrade to the network.
>  
> 
> Luke
> 
> 
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Applications
>   Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
>   Author: Luke Dashjr mailto:luke%2b...@dashjr.org>>
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-?? 
> ??
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
> 
> 
> ==Abstract==
> 
> This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC price 
> for transactions.
> 
> ==Copyright==
> 
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
> 
> ==Motivation==
> 
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably 
> low 
> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price 
> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and 
> there is widespread support for higher prices.
> 
> This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins. 
> Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to the 
> price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to Bitcoin 
> transactions to indicate their price.
> 
> ==Specification==
> 
> ===New field and legal implication===
> 
> A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present, must 
> represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By 
> signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the valuation of 
> bitcoins used for the transaction.
> 
> For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency 
> other 
> than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the USD 
> valuation.
> 
> ===Serialisation===
> 
> When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing, weight 
> calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one. Prior to 
> the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:
> 
> * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer 
> serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to 
> preserve the sign bit).
> 
> ==Backwards compatibility==
> 
> ===Consensus===
> 
> The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of zero, 
> and 
> a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will ignore 
> this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures it 
> is never considered spendable.
> 
> Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept 
> transactions using it.
> 
> ===Wallets===
> 
> Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified. 
> Under this BIP, this absence of the field is

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-04-01 Thread Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev 
On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 02:32, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
>
> The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for
> convenience:
>   https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
>
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki
>
> A reference implementation is here:
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k
>
> Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.
>

This seems a little arbitrary.  Ask yourself, "Why the USD?".  Yes, it is
the dominant currency now, but in 2, 6, 10, 14 years?  Who knows.

You could make equally an argument to denominate in euros.  Or a basket of
currencies, or even the Bancor.

However the wider question is why even denominate in fiat at all?

I suggest denominating the minimum value in satoshsis themselves, which
would be a negligable upgrade to the network.


>
> Luke
>
>
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Applications
>   Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
>   Author: Luke Dashjr 
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
> 
>
> ==Abstract==
>
> This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC
> price
> for transactions.
>
> ==Copyright==
>
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
>
> ==Motivation==
>
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low
> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price
> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that,
> and
> there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins.
> Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to
> the
> price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to
> Bitcoin
> transactions to indicate their price.
>
> ==Specification==
>
> ===New field and legal implication===
>
> A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present, must
> represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By
> signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the valuation
> of
> bitcoins used for the transaction.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency
> other
> than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the USD
> valuation.
>
> ===Serialisation===
>
> When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing,
> weight
> calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one. Prior
> to
> the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:
>
> * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer
> serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to
> preserve the sign bit).
>
> ==Backwards compatibility==
>
> ===Consensus===
>
> The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of zero,
> and
> a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will ignore
> this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures
> it
> is never considered spendable.
>
> Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept
> transactions using it.
>
> ===Wallets===
>
> Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified.
> Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.
>
> ==Reference implementation==
>
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field
>
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
>   Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
>   Author: Luke Dashjr 
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
>   Requires: usdprice
> 
>
> ==Abstract==
>
> This BIP defines a minimum price of $50k USD/BTC for Bitcoin transactions.
>
> ==Copyright==
>
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
>
> ==Motivation==
>
>

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-04-01 Thread LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev 
It is April 1st. Nonetheless, I am agreed that the first part to track the 
exchange rate in USD (why not use Gold $/oz?) has merit if properly 
implemented. Voluntary data is notoriously difficult to enforce for accuracy.

Regards,

From: bitcoin-dev-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org 
 on behalf of Satoshin via 
bitcoin-dev 
Sent: Monday, 1 April 2019 2:07 PM
To: Peter Todd; Bitcoin Protocol Discussion
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

Hi Everyone,
 First portion of your First BIP is excellent- with this field the protocol 
can actually attain HFT- by  pinning of value at time of trade for later 
unblock scaling as a mark to market tool which is used in HFT.

The Second BIP of a minimum price would never allow Bitcoin to pass the SEC 
test of a viable asset. - I hope that portion was actually a Joke since it 
makes no sense economically.
If one has ever seen a stock drop 90% in one day then you would understand the 
volatile nature of future valuation.

Prices have to be able to go higher and lower based on market demand and not 
tethering to perceived norms. If the US dollar was crashed and it went down to 
Venezuelan currency levels [hypothetically then where would your 50k limit lead 
the currency} Never say never-

Best Regards
XX

> On Mar 31, 2019, at 9:11 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev 
>  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 12:30:34AM +, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
>> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
>> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
>> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
>>
>> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
>> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
>> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
>
> I believe I've found a serious vulnerability in your proposal: there's no 
> limit
> on the maximum supply of USD.
>
> --
> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> ___
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Satoshin via bitcoin-dev 
Hi Everyone,
 First portion of your First BIP is excellent- with this field the protocol 
can actually attain HFT- by  pinning of value at time of trade for later 
unblock scaling as a mark to market tool which is used in HFT.

The Second BIP of a minimum price would never allow Bitcoin to pass the SEC 
test of a viable asset. - I hope that portion was actually a Joke since it 
makes no sense economically. 
If one has ever seen a stock drop 90% in one day then you would understand the 
volatile nature of future valuation.

Prices have to be able to go higher and lower based on market demand and not 
tethering to perceived norms. If the US dollar was crashed and it went down to 
Venezuelan currency levels [hypothetically then where would your 50k limit lead 
the currency} Never say never- 

Best Regards
XX
 
> On Mar 31, 2019, at 9:11 PM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 12:30:34AM +, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev wrote:
>> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
>> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
>> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
>> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
>> 
>> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
>> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
>> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
> 
> I believe I've found a serious vulnerability in your proposal: there's no 
> limit
> on the maximum supply of USD.
> 
> -- 
> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> ___
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Dave Scotese via bitcoin-dev 
I think EXACTLY ONE YEAR is the perfect time.  Well, a year and a day for
me because I'm on the wrong side of the date line, apparently.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 6:04 PM Ricardo Filipe via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> one year seems too long. i think with the BIP-148 experience you have
> we could easily get there in 6 months at most.
>
> Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev 
> escreveu no dia segunda, 1/04/2019 à(s) 01:33:
> >
> > Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
> unreasonably
> > low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven
> the
> > price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> > that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
> >
> > In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> > signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> > minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
> >
> > The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for
> > convenience:
> >
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
> >
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki
> >
> > A reference implementation is here:
> >
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k
> >
> > Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.
> >
> > Luke
> >
> >
> > 
> >   BIP: ?
> >   Layer: Applications
> >   Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
> >   Author: Luke Dashjr 
> >   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
> >   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
> >   Status: Draft
> >   Type: Standards Track
> >   Created: 2019-04-01
> >   License: BSD-2-Clause
> > 
> >
> > ==Abstract==
> >
> > This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC
> price
> > for transactions.
> >
> > ==Copyright==
> >
> > This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
> >
> > ==Motivation==
> >
> > Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
> unreasonably low
> > prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price
> > down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that,
> and
> > there is widespread support for higher prices.
> >
> > This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins.
> > Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to
> the
> > price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to
> Bitcoin
> > transactions to indicate their price.
> >
> > ==Specification==
> >
> > ===New field and legal implication===
> >
> > A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present,
> must
> > represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By
> > signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the
> valuation of
> > bitcoins used for the transaction.
> >
> > For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency
> other
> > than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the
> USD
> > valuation.
> >
> > ===Serialisation===
> >
> > When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing,
> weight
> > calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one.
> Prior to
> > the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:
> >
> > * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> > * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> > * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
> > * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> > * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer
> > serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to
> > preserve the sign bit).
> >
> > ==Backwards compatibility==
> >
> > ===Consensus===
> >
> > The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of
> zero, and
> > a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will
> ignore
> > this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures
> it
> > is never considered spendable.
> >
> > Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept
> > transactions using it.
> >
> > ===Wallets===
> >
> > Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified.
> > Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.
> >
> > ==Reference implementation==
> >
> >
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field
> >
> > 
> >   BIP: ?
> >   Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
> >   Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
> >   Author: Luke Dashjr 
> >   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
> >   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
> >   Status: Draft
> >   Type: Standards Track
> >   Created: 2019-04-01
> >   License: BSD-2-Clause
> >   Requires: usdprice
> > 
> >
> > ==Abstract==
> >
> > This BIP

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev 
Hard NAK.

A minimum 5 USD : 1 BTC exchange rate implies that the value of 1 USD = 
0.2 BTC at maximum.

However, such a USD value in BTC value maximum makes no sense since the true 
value of 1 USD = 0. BTC.
(on Lightning, 1 USD = 0.000 BTC)

In particular, the encoding proposed in the BIP does not support a 
representation of infinity USD per BTC, such that it is impossible to express 
the true value of USD under this BIP.

> * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer 
> serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to 
> preserve the sign bit).

Regards,
ZmnSCPxj




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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Thomas France via bitcoin-dev 
Once again, Core shows how conservative they are. I am in favor of 2X with
a 100kUSD minimum price, all Bitcoin businesses are with me !

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 7:48 PM Ricardo Filipe via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> one year seems too long. i think with the BIP-148 experience you have
> we could easily get there in 6 months at most.
>
> Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev 
> escreveu no dia segunda, 1/04/2019 à(s) 01:33:
> >
> > Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
> unreasonably
> > low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven
> the
> > price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> > that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
> >
> > In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> > signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> > minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
> >
> > The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for
> > convenience:
> >
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
> >
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki
> >
> > A reference implementation is here:
> >
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k
> >
> > Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.
> >
> > Luke
> >
> >
> > 
> >   BIP: ?
> >   Layer: Applications
> >   Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
> >   Author: Luke Dashjr 
> >   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
> >   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
> >   Status: Draft
> >   Type: Standards Track
> >   Created: 2019-04-01
> >   License: BSD-2-Clause
> > 
> >
> > ==Abstract==
> >
> > This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC
> price
> > for transactions.
> >
> > ==Copyright==
> >
> > This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
> >
> > ==Motivation==
> >
> > Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
> unreasonably low
> > prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price
> > down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that,
> and
> > there is widespread support for higher prices.
> >
> > This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins.
> > Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to
> the
> > price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to
> Bitcoin
> > transactions to indicate their price.
> >
> > ==Specification==
> >
> > ===New field and legal implication===
> >
> > A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present,
> must
> > represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By
> > signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the
> valuation of
> > bitcoins used for the transaction.
> >
> > For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency
> other
> > than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the
> USD
> > valuation.
> >
> > ===Serialisation===
> >
> > When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing,
> weight
> > calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one.
> Prior to
> > the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:
> >
> > * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> > * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> > * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
> > * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> > * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer
> > serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to
> > preserve the sign bit).
> >
> > ==Backwards compatibility==
> >
> > ===Consensus===
> >
> > The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of
> zero, and
> > a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will
> ignore
> > this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures
> it
> > is never considered spendable.
> >
> > Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept
> > transactions using it.
> >
> > ===Wallets===
> >
> > Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified.
> > Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.
> >
> > ==Reference implementation==
> >
> >
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field
> >
> > 
> >   BIP: ?
> >   Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
> >   Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
> >   Author: Luke Dashjr 
> >   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
> >   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
> >   Status: Draft
> >   Type: Standards Track
> >   Created: 2019-04-01
> >   License: BSD-2-Clause
> >   Requires: usdprice
> > 
> >
> > ==Abstract==
> >
> > This BIP

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Omar Shibli via bitcoin-dev 
Shit, so we are vulnerable today? is this zero day vulnerability? so we
could be f* big?

On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 5:47 AM Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 12:30:34AM +, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev
> wrote:
> > Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for
> unreasonably
> > low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven
> the
> > price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> > that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
> >
> > In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> > signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> > minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
>
> I believe I've found a serious vulnerability in your proposal: there's no
> limit
> on the maximum supply of USD.
>
> --
> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> ___
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Omar Shibli via bitcoin-dev 
Reasonable, I think also first timer should be forbidden form transacting
for at least 3 years from the first purchase, after going in '3 years' into
the rabbit hole, you can consider selling bitcoins. that's fair for low
time hard money folks, imho.

On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 3:33 AM Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
>
> The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for
> convenience:
>   https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
>
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki
>
> A reference implementation is here:
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k
>
> Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.
>
> Luke
>
>
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Applications
>   Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
>   Author: Luke Dashjr 
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
> 
>
> ==Abstract==
>
> This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC
> price
> for transactions.
>
> ==Copyright==
>
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
>
> ==Motivation==
>
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low
> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price
> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that,
> and
> there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins.
> Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to
> the
> price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to
> Bitcoin
> transactions to indicate their price.
>
> ==Specification==
>
> ===New field and legal implication===
>
> A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present, must
> represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By
> signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the valuation
> of
> bitcoins used for the transaction.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency
> other
> than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the USD
> valuation.
>
> ===Serialisation===
>
> When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing,
> weight
> calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one. Prior
> to
> the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:
>
> * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer
> serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to
> preserve the sign bit).
>
> ==Backwards compatibility==
>
> ===Consensus===
>
> The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of zero,
> and
> a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will ignore
> this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures
> it
> is never considered spendable.
>
> Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept
> transactions using it.
>
> ===Wallets===
>
> Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified.
> Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.
>
> ==Reference implementation==
>
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field
>
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
>   Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
>   Author: Luke Dashjr 
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
>   Requires: usdprice
> 
>
> ==Abstract==
>
> This BIP defines a minimum price of $50k USD/BTC for Bitcoin transactions.
>
> ==Copyright==
>
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
>
> ==Motivation==
>
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low
> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price
> down below $15k!

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev 
On Mon, Apr 01, 2019 at 12:30:34AM +, Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
> 
> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.

I believe I've found a serious vulnerability in your proposal: there's no limit
on the maximum supply of USD.

-- 
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org


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Re: [bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Ricardo Filipe via bitcoin-dev 
one year seems too long. i think with the BIP-148 experience you have
we could easily get there in 6 months at most.

Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev 
escreveu no dia segunda, 1/04/2019 à(s) 01:33:
>
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
> low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
> price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
> that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
> signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
> minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.
>
> The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for
> convenience:
>   https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
> https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki
>
> A reference implementation is here:
>   https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k
>
> Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.
>
> Luke
>
>
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Applications
>   Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
>   Author: Luke Dashjr 
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
> 
>
> ==Abstract==
>
> This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC price
> for transactions.
>
> ==Copyright==
>
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
>
> ==Motivation==
>
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably low
> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price
> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and
> there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins.
> Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to the
> price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to Bitcoin
> transactions to indicate their price.
>
> ==Specification==
>
> ===New field and legal implication===
>
> A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present, must
> represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By
> signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the valuation of
> bitcoins used for the transaction.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency other
> than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the USD
> valuation.
>
> ===Serialisation===
>
> When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing, weight
> calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one. Prior to
> the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:
>
> * Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
> * A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
> * The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer
> serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to
> preserve the sign bit).
>
> ==Backwards compatibility==
>
> ===Consensus===
>
> The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of zero, and
> a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will ignore
> this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures it
> is never considered spendable.
>
> Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept
> transactions using it.
>
> ===Wallets===
>
> Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified.
> Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.
>
> ==Reference implementation==
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field
>
> 
>   BIP: ?
>   Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
>   Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
>   Author: Luke Dashjr 
>   Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
>   Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
>   Status: Draft
>   Type: Standards Track
>   Created: 2019-04-01
>   License: BSD-2-Clause
>   Requires: usdprice
> 
>
> ==Abstract==
>
> This BIP defines a minimum price of $50k USD/BTC for Bitcoin transactions.
>
> ==Copyright==
>
> This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.
>
> ==Motivation==
>
> Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably low
> prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price
> down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and
> there is widespread support for higher prices.
>
> bip-usdprice defines a new field to indicate the price of transactions. Using
> this,

[bitcoin-dev] Softfork proposal for minimum price of $50k USD/BTC

2019-03-31 Thread Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev 
Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably
low prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the
price down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than
that, and there is widespread support for higher prices.

In light of this, I have written and implemented two BIPs: one to add a
signed price field to Bitcoin transactions, and the other to softfork a
minimum price of $50k USD/BTC a year from today.

The BIPs are here, as well as included at the bottom of this email for 
convenience:
  https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-usdprice.mediawiki
https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/softfork_50k/bip-softfork-50k-price.mediawiki

A reference implementation is here:
  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:softfork_50k

Please review ASAP so we can get these deployed in Bitcoin Core v0.18.

Luke



  BIP: ?
  Layer: Applications
  Title: Signed USD Price Indicator
  Author: Luke Dashjr 
  Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
  Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
  Status: Draft
  Type: Standards Track
  Created: 2019-04-01
  License: BSD-2-Clause


==Abstract==

This BIP proposes a method to explicitly specify and sign the USD/BTC price 
for transactions.

==Copyright==

This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.

==Motivation==

Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably low 
prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price 
down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and 
there is widespread support for higher prices.

This problem can be fixed by setting a global minimum price for bitcoins. 
Unfortunately, today, the consensus protocol is completely oblivious to the 
price bitcoins are traded at. Therefore, we must first add a field to Bitcoin 
transactions to indicate their price.

==Specification==

===New field and legal implication===

A new field is added to Bitcoin transactions. This field, if present, must 
represent the honest and true USD/BTC rate used for the transaction. By 
signing the transaction, the sender legally affirms this is the valuation of 
bitcoins used for the transaction.

For the avoidance of doubt: when the transaction is valued in a currency other 
than USD, any reasonable exchange rate may be used to come up with the USD 
valuation.

===Serialisation===

When serialising the transaction for any purpose, including signing, weight 
calculation, and so on, the output count must be incremented by one. Prior to 
the first real output, the following bytes must be inserted:

* Constant: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
* A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
* Constant: 6a 04 55 53 44 24
* A single byte, the size in bytes of the remainder of the inserted data
* The USD/BTC rate used for the transaction, in standard signed integer 
serialisation, with all leading zeros removed (except as necessary to 
preserve the sign bit).

==Backwards compatibility==

===Consensus===

The new price field is serialised as a dummy output, with a value of zero, and 
a scriptPubKey that begins with OP_RETURN (6a). Existing nodes will ignore 
this dummy output, and the leading OP_RETURN in the scriptPubKey ensures it 
is never considered spendable.

Therefore, current nodes will ignore the new field entirely, and accept 
transactions using it.

===Wallets===

Existing wallets do not typically generate price indicators as specified. 
Under this BIP, this absence of the field is perfectly acceptable.

==Reference implementation==

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/v0.17.1...luke-jr:usd_price_tx_field


  BIP: ?
  Layer: Consensus (soft fork)
  Title: $50k USD/BTC Minimum Price
  Author: Luke Dashjr 
  Comments-Summary: No comments yet.
  Comments-URI: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/wiki/Comments:BIP-
  Status: Draft
  Type: Standards Track
  Created: 2019-04-01
  License: BSD-2-Clause
  Requires: usdprice


==Abstract==

This BIP defines a minimum price of $50k USD/BTC for Bitcoin transactions.

==Copyright==

This BIP is licensed under the BSD 2-clause license.

==Motivation==

Certain parts of the community have been selling bitcoins for unreasonably low 
prices. This has halted Bitcoin's valuation at $20k and even driven the price 
down below $15k! However, clearly Bitcoin is worth much more than that, and 
there is widespread support for higher prices.

bip-usdprice defines a new field to indicate the price of transactions. Using 
this, we can softfork to require a minimum transaction price.

==Specification==

Beginning with block height 622370 (expected approximately 2020 April 1), a 
block is reject as invalid unless all transactions it contains both declare a 
USD/BTC price (as defined in bip-usdprice) and specify a price that is at a 
minimum $50k USD/BTC.

==Backwards compatibility==

As a soft fork, older nodes will continue