Re: [Bitcoin-development] Chain dust mitigation: Demurrage based Chain Vacuuming

2012-12-04 Thread Andy Parkins
On Monday 03 December 2012 11:19:37 Michael Gronager wrote: The aged coins are simply included in the block mining reward, creating another incentive for miners. Further, if we include all coins in this recycle scheme coins will never be lost forever. Ignoring the cost of storing these

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Payment Protocol Proposal: Invoices/Payments/Receipts

2012-12-04 Thread Mike Hearn
So, if a bitcoin client is getting Invoice messages via email or from a web server, the version will be specified as part of the MIME type; for example: Content-Type: application/x-bitcoin-invoice; version=1 The version= syntax is part of the MIME standard. I think that's OK. However, you

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: The alternative, I guess, is to make Bitcoin-Qt have an SPV mode. I'm not convinced this is the best use of time, but if somebody steps up to do it, that could also work. I strongly believe that if community leads with client

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Mark Friedenbach
Alan's UTxO meta-chain proposal becomes vastly easier to do now that ultraprune is merged. That would allow the Satoshi client to know it's wallet balance and operate with a =SPV level of security during the initial block download, and keep them on the path of becoming a full node. If users can

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Will
...or should we be directing people to a (vetted) list of cloud services - I think this has a significantly lower entry cost than any client. I know the mybitcoin debacle has clouded (pun intended) people's views of these providers, but blockchain.info (for example) really does seem quite well

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Mark Friedenbach m...@monetize.io wrote: Alan's :( UTxO meta-chain proposal becomes vastly easier to do now that ultraprune is merged. No, not really. Somewhat easier due to some structural changes, but it still needs to invent and get consensus on a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Mike Hearn
It sounds to me that you're insisting that you're asking people who oppose degrading our recommendations to commit to a costly rushed development timeline. I think this is a false choice. Hardly. I don't have any particular timeline in mind. But I disagree we have forever. New ideas have a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: It sounds to me that you're insisting that you're asking people who oppose degrading our recommendations to commit to a costly rushed development timeline. I think this is a false choice. Hardly. I don't have any particular

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread slush
Jim, perfect idea with some logo indicating wallet compatibility! This should cover BIP32 + some mnemonic algorithm for easy transferring of wallets across various clients. Btw I asked ThomasV for making BIP from his mnemonic algorithm and he agreed, so I believe some proposal will be here pretty

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Alan Reiner etothe...@gmail.com wrote: Greg's point looks like it's veering towards we don't want to grow the network unless we're going to get more full nodes out of it. No… There is no fundamental completion between taking what actions we can to maximize the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Alan Reiner
Our divergence is on two points (personal opinions): (1) I don't think there is any real risk to the centralization of the network by promoting a SPV (purely-consuming) node to brand-new users. In my opinion (but I'm not as familiar with the networking as you), as long as all full nodes are

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Alan Reiner etothe...@gmail.com wrote: Our divergence is on two points (personal opinions): (1) I don't think there is any real risk to the centralization of the network by promoting a SPV (purely-consuming) node to brand-new users. In my opinion (but I'm not

[Bitcoin-development] String-based Hierarchical Deterministic Keys - Alternative to BIP 32

2012-12-04 Thread Mike Koss
I've implemented an alternative to the BIP 32 proposal. I wanted a system based on a hierarchical string representation (rather than hierarchy of integers as BIP 32 proposes). For example I name keys like this: [hd1.7549].store.1. 1D7GM5dkUtxvGeWgn7SYtanBuyj1MD1EZy [hd1.7549].store.2.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] String-based Hierarchical Deterministic Keys - Alternative to BIP 32

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Mike Koss m...@coinlab.com wrote: I've implemented an alternative to the BIP 32 proposal. I wanted a system based on a hierarchical string representation (rather than hierarchy of integers as BIP 32 proposes). For example I name keys like this:

Re: [Bitcoin-development] String-based Hierarchical Deterministic Keys - Alternative to BIP 32

2012-12-04 Thread Watson Ladd
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Gregory Maxwell gmaxw...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Mike Koss m...@coinlab.com wrote: I've implemented an alternative to the BIP 32 proposal. I wanted a system based on a hierarchical string representation (rather than hierarchy of

[Bitcoin-development] String-based Hierarchical Deterministic Keys - Alternative to BIP 32

2012-12-04 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Watson Ladd w...@uchicago.edu wrote: being able to spend a coin sent to an address generated by this scheme implies being able to spend any coin generated by this scheme. If you have the the full extended secret there then you can spend along the chain— but

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Jim Nguyen
Gavin's grandma needs to be able to use bitcoin. Here is a real world sampling of the types of people wanting to use bitcoin but are having some difficulty which I have collected from Facebook. Should we listen to the end user? :-P *what is the intention of Bitcoin? Is it supposed to be -

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Roadmap to getting users onto SPV clients

2012-12-04 Thread Wladimir
Jim, Most of those issues don't have to do with the SPV versus non-SPV problem. First person doesn't understand what Bitcoin is supposed to do (he's confusing mining and running a node). An information problem that could be solved by explaining what is going on. Another one seems to have a