Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 0021 idea: sendmany
>bitcoin:[:][/][;[:][/l>]][?message=] Correction: bitcoin:[/][:][;[/][:]][?message=] -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 0021 idea: sendmany
You can pull use cases out of thin air. Humble Bundle is a perfect example. BIP 0001 instructed me to introduce the idea here before performing the labor of writing a new BIP. If others reply in support then the labor will be justified. The intended purpose is to give users the simplest way to perform a transaction with multiple outputs. Ideal would be to provide a single URI (or QR code or what have you) that specifies all of the outputs (address:amount pairs) and minimizes opportunities for user error, e.g. by omitting or altering an output. I'll take you through the process that brought me to the solution below. The main part of the current bitcoin URI scheme is a single bitcoinaddress. If the sendmany scheme left this foundation unchanged there will be difficulty with both semantics and backwards compatibility. Contemplate some use cases for sendmany URIs. Are each of the outputs in a given transaction equally important? In other words, are all outputs necessary to fulfill the terms of the exchange between the parties? I would say so. Not that the bitcoin client should forbid changing the outputs after processing the URI, but that it should reject the entire URI if the client does not support the multi-output syntax. The discussion of backward compatibility in BIP 0021 recommends against reqparams being used in a mission-critical way while users upgrade their clients. A reqparams approach would permit the gravest possible error, i.e. an older client silently discarding all but the first address and allowing the user unwittingly to violate the terms of the exchange AND irreversibly send some BTC to a possibly adversarial party. We must guard against this potentially devastating failure mode. After a study of pchar and other BNF terms (http://www.w3.org/TR/hdml20-8.html) I propose the following format with optional labels and amounts: bitcoin:label/address:amount;label/address:amount?params Before arriving at this format I tried and rejected these other output formats: address/label:amount (ambiguous since ":" and amount are allowed in label's *pchar) address:amount/label (less readable since the label is split from its referent) The proposed format keeps labels and addresses together for human readability. The label delimiter "/" is a reserved character which eliminates ambiguous cases, making this format easy for bitcoin clients to parse. Therefore I propose the following grammar: bitcoinurn = "bitcoin:" outputs [ "?" bitcoinparams ] outputs= output *[ ";" output ] | bitcoinaddress output = [ label "/" ] bitcoinaddress [ ":" amount ] bitcoinaddress = base58 *base58 amount = *digit [ "." *digit ] bitcoinparams = bitcoinparam *[ "&" bitcoinparam ] bitcoinparam = amountparam | labelparam | messageparam | otherparam | reqparam amountparam= "amount=" amount labelparam = "label=" label label = *pchar messageparam = "message=" *pchar otherparam = pchar *pchar "=" *pchar reqparam = "req-" pchar *pchar "=" *pchar This may be added under "Simpler syntax": bitcoin:[:][/][;[:][/]][?message=] As well as these examples: bitcoin:Bitcoin+Foundation/1BTCorgHwCg6u2YSAWKgS17qUad6kHmtQW bitcoin:eBook+Store/175tWpb8K1S7NmH4Zx6rewF9WQrcZv245W:0.1;Bob+Author/1F4JfsqiDTG7vjnsz5daUrz2yexQGXB8uo:1.9?message=Purchased+eBook:+Bobgraphy Brief testing with MultiBit shows that the URIs above are fully rejected by the client. This is the desired behavior for clients lacking support for multiple-output URIs. Thus we guard against the devastating failure mode outlined above. Do you appreciate my work? Send a tip: 1F4JfsqiDTG7vjnsz5daUrz2yexQGXB8uo -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
Getting back to the original proposal: RE: uuid instead of "main" / "test" in the payment protocol: I vote no. The payment protocol will become at least 3 BIPs: 1) Protocol messages (current gist, essentially) 2) MIME type 3) bitcoin: URI extension An alt coin will need its own version of (2) and (3), so when you click on a foocoin: link a foocoin-specific MIME type is fetched and foocoin.exe is launched to handle the request. ... or a specific MIME type is fetched and delivered to the HandlesLotsOfCoins application (... and it knows what MIME type it is getting, so can Do the Right Thing). If a payment request is delivered via HTTP or email, it will be bundled up in an envelope of some sort with the MIME type attached. So, after further thought, I've changed my mind: which coin would be encoded in the MIME type. Which chain for that coin would be encoded in PaymentDetails.network. -- -- Gavin Andresen Chief Scientist, Bitcoin Foundation https://www.bitcoinfoundation.org/ -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Luke-Jr wrote: > In some cases, multiple currencies can use the same blockchain (not just the > singular genesis block). This use case *is* something we want to encourage - > no reason for people to make an entirely new blockchain if their altcoin fits > within the scope of Bitcoin or another existing altchain. OK, let me qualify. Layers on top are one thing, but we really do not want to support cases like the fork that leaves the genesis block intact, and leaves the subsidy at 50.0 BTC forever. -- Jeff Garzik exMULTI, Inc. jgar...@exmulti.com -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 2:20:22 PM Jeff Garzik wrote: > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Melvin Carvalho > > wrote: > > On 22 May 2013 16:07, Jeff Garzik wrote: > >> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Melvin Carvalho > >> > >> wrote: > >> > Some out of band algo/hash could work so long as there was a one to > >> > one relationship between the described object and the UUID. In this > >> > case the > >> > gensis block may not uniquely identify a coin. > >> > >> What does this mean? It seems extremely unlikely that two different > >> genesis blocks will have the same hash. > > > > Two coin ecosystems could have the same genesis block > > That has really, really bad side effects. The whole point of the > bitcoin consensus algorithm is to avoid situations like this. > > We don't want to encourage that behavior with code. In some cases, multiple currencies can use the same blockchain (not just the singular genesis block). This use case *is* something we want to encourage - no reason for people to make an entirely new blockchain if their altcoin fits within the scope of Bitcoin or another existing altchain. -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > On 22 May 2013 16:07, Jeff Garzik wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Melvin Carvalho >> wrote: >> > Some out of band algo/hash could work so long as there was a one to one >> > relationship between the described object and the UUID. In this case >> > the >> > gensis block may not uniquely identify a coin. >> >> What does this mean? It seems extremely unlikely that two different >> genesis blocks will have the same hash. > > > Two coin ecosystems could have the same genesis block That has really, really bad side effects. The whole point of the bitcoin consensus algorithm is to avoid situations like this. We don't want to encourage that behavior with code. -- Jeff Garzik exMULTI, Inc. jgar...@exmulti.com -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
On 22 May 2013 16:07, Jeff Garzik wrote: > On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Melvin Carvalho > wrote: > > Some out of band algo/hash could work so long as there was a one to one > > relationship between the described object and the UUID. In this case the > > gensis block may not uniquely identify a coin. > > What does this mean? It seems extremely unlikely that two different > genesis blocks will have the same hash. > Two coin ecosystems could have the same genesis block > > -- > Jeff Garzik > exMULTI, Inc. > jgar...@exmulti.com > -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:27 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > Some out of band algo/hash could work so long as there was a one to one > relationship between the described object and the UUID. In this case the > gensis block may not uniquely identify a coin. What does this mean? It seems extremely unlikely that two different genesis blocks will have the same hash. -- Jeff Garzik exMULTI, Inc. jgar...@exmulti.com -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] UUID to identify chains (payment protocol and elsewhere)
On 21 May 2013 01:59, Mark Friedenbach wrote:
> At the developer round-table it was asked if the payment protocol would
> alt-chains, and Gavin noted that it has a UTF-8 encoded string
> identifying the network ("main" or "test"). As someone with two
> proposals in the works which also require chain/coin identification (one
> for merged mining, one for colored coins), I am opinionated on this. I
> believe that we need a standard mechanism for identifying chains, and
> one which avoids the trap of maintaining a standard registry of
> string-to-chain mappings.
>
> Any chain can be uniquely identified by its genesis block, 122 random
> bits is more than sufficient for uniquely tagging chains/colored assets,
> and the low-order 16-bytes of the block's hash are effectively random.
> With these facts in mind, I propose that we identify chains by UUID.
>
> So as to remain reasonably compliant with RFC 4122, I recommend that we
> use Version 4 (random) UUIDs, with the random bits extracted from the
> double-SHA256 hash of the genesis block of the chain. (For colored
> coins, the colored coin definition transaction would be used instead,
> but I will address that in a separate proposal and will say just one
> thing about it: adopting this method for identifying chains/coins will
> greatly assist in adopting the payment protocol to colored coins.)
>
> The following Python code illustrates how to construct the chain
> identifier from the serialized genesis block:
>
> from hashlib import sha256
> from uuid import UUID
> def chain_uuid(serialized_genesis_block):
> h = sha256(serialized_genesis_block).digest()
> h = sha256(h).digest()
> h = h[:16]
> h = ''.join([
> h[:6],
> chr(0x40 | ord(h[6]) & 0x0f),
> h[7],
> chr(0x80 | ord(h[8]) & 0x3f),
> h[9:]
> ])
> return UUID(bytes=h)
>
> And some example chain identifiers:
>
> mainnet: UUID('6fe28c0a-b6f1-4372-81a6-a246ae63f74f')
> testnet3: UUID('43497fd7-f826-4571-88f4-a30fd9cec3ae')
> namecoin: UUID('70c7a9f0-a2fb-4d48-a635-a70d5b157c80')
>
> As for encoding the chain identifier, the simplest method is to give
> "network" the "bytes" type, but defining a "UUID" message type is also
> possible. In either case bitcoin mainnet would be the default, so the
> extra 12 bytes (vs: "main" or "test") would only be an issue for
> alt-chains or colored coins.
>
This is essentially name spacing. As registries grow namespaces become
more important. In bitcoin's quest for decentrality there's also the
question of who maintains the registry.
Some out of band algo/hash could work so long as there was a one to one
relationship between the described object and the UUID. In this case the
gensis block may not uniquely identify a coin.
The normal way to namespace a registry on the internet is to allow it to be
a URI. In this case an http style uri has the added bonus side effect that
it can be dereferencable and both human and machine readable. So yes
something like org.bitcoin.* is good, just simply growing things to http
style uris is cleaner, imho
>
> Kind regards,
> Mark Friedenbach
>
>
> --
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] BIP 0021 idea: sendmany
Do you have a specific use case in mind? Maybe - if you have a percentage slider like with humble bundles you can make it more explicit what part went where? In any case, if you're really interested in this you need to write a new BIP that extends 21. "Any syntax will do" does not help in implementation :-) Wladimir Multiple recipients/amounts. Any syntax you like. Thanks! -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
[Bitcoin-development] BIP 0021 idea: sendmany
Multiple recipients/amounts. Any syntax you like. Thanks! -- Try New Relic Now & We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, & servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_may___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
