Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Peter Todd wrote: > Speaking of, can anyone think of an example of a complex transaction > use-case that is affected by malleability which can't be fixed by > CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY? I'm sure they exist, but I'm scratching my head > trying to think of a good example.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Peter Todd
On Thu, Oct 09, 2014 at 06:28:19AM +, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Adam Back wrote: > > I think you can do everything with the existing script level nlocktime > > in some kind of turing completeness sense (maybe); but there is a > > complexity cost that often you ha

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Adam Back wrote: > I think you can do everything with the existing script level nlocktime > in some kind of turing completeness sense (maybe); but there is a > complexity cost that often you have to resort to extra dependent > transaction(s) (and work-around malleab

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Adam Back
I think you can do everything with the existing script level nlocktime in some kind of turing completeness sense (maybe); but there is a complexity cost that often you have to resort to extra dependent transaction(s) (and work-around malleability until that is fully fixed) just to get the effect.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Alan Reiner
By the way, I really like this proposal. I haven't spent much time thinking about the deeper subtleties and risks associated with it, but I see a lot of opportunities. One just came to mind that I didn't see mentioned in his original proposal: _Non-Interactive Recurring payments__with ID-associa

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Wladimir
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Mike Hearn wrote: >> That is easy to change; I'll submit a pull request. > > > That's certainly a useful improvement. It won't help the existing userbase > though - assuming CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY is to go in to the next major release. The next minor release (0.9.4) c

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The Bitcoin Freeze on Transaction Attack (FRONT)

2014-10-08 Thread Mike Hearn
> > Yes, you're right. I didn't consider that case. But the problem is that > this is not automatic. Currently there is a clear division between > miners how will not take the kickback (irrrational) and miners who will > (rational). This seems to come up a lot. Your definition of rational is a sh

Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP draft] CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY - Prevent a txout from being spent until an expiration time

2014-10-08 Thread Mike Hearn
> > Opinion: if a soft work works, it should be preferred, if for no other > reason than once a hard-fork is planned, the discussion begins about > what else to throw in. To minimize the frequency of hard-forks, the > time for that is when the change being considered actually requires one. I'm n

[Bitcoin-development] snailmail bitcoin client

2014-10-08 Thread Naveen Garg
Here is a business idea: customers send you a bitcoin transaction printed on paper. You scan the transaction and broadcast it to the network. Your fee could be the greater of some minimum or like 0.01% of the transaction value. The fee could be sent as just another paper transaction, it could even