Re: [Bitcoin-development] Version bytes 2.0

2011-12-12 Thread Pieter Wuille
It seems base58 is actually quite terrible for producing nice human-recognizable
addresses, even though base58 is specially intended for human usage. We'll just
have to deal with it, or completely overhaul it and move to a saner encoding.


Luke's proposal is somewhat more drastic than my original one, since it removes
the actual version notion from the version bytes, and changes testnet 
addresses.
However, I think it may be worth it. More data classes have been necessary
before, and new versions haven't. Furthermore, they are far more recognizable to
users, which is something that in particular for OP_EVAL addresses (script 
hashes)
will be a plus.

Therefore, I'm in favor of the proposal; the new versions would become:

0:   mainnet pubkey hashes ('1', as before)
192: testnet pubnet hashes ('2', instead of 111, 'm' and 'n')
5:   mainnet script hashes ('3'; for OP_EVAL)
196: testnet script hashes ('2', same as normal testnet addresses)
12:  mainnet private keys  ('Q', 'R' or 'S', instead of 128, '5')
204: testnet private keys  ('7', instead of 239, '8' and '9')

Comments?

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Version bytes 2.0

2011-12-12 Thread Luke-Jr
On Monday, December 12, 2011 3:56:01 PM Pieter Wuille wrote:
 It seems base58 is actually quite terrible for producing nice
 human-recognizable addresses, even though base58 is specially intended for
 human usage. We'll just have to deal with it, or completely overhaul it
 and move to a saner encoding.

Or both: use this proposal for 20-byte base58 for now, and overhaul it in the 
future (maybe when the block chain forks?).

 0:   mainnet pubkey hashes ('1', as before)
 192: testnet pubnet hashes ('2', instead of 111, 'm' and 'n')
 5:   mainnet script hashes ('3'; for OP_EVAL)
 196: testnet script hashes ('2', same as normal testnet addresses)

Looks good here.

 12:  mainnet private keys  ('Q', 'R' or 'S', instead of 128, '5')
 204: testnet private keys  ('7', instead of 239, '8' and '9')

These are 32-byte, so have no reason IMO to follow the 20-byte proposal.
Since a lot of services are already using version 128 ('5') for bitcoin 
private keys, and 128 is reserved in the 20-byte proposal, I think it's fair 
to leave it alone (for now).

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[Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Amir Taaki
I wrote this pre-draft:


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0015

It's merely a starter for discussions.

Aliases are a way to lookup bitcoin addresses so I can type gen...@genjix.net 
instead of 1jkddsjdskjwnk2j3kj232kjdkj


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Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Luke-Jr
FirstBits looks nice at glance, but is bound to create a gold-rush to grab 
every nice-looking FirstBits address.

HTTPS is only as secure as the (centralized) CAs, thus not really any better 
than TXT records.

I don't think an address of some form is avoidable.

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Jorge Timón
I don't think Amir wants to put it into the protocol, but I still
don't like much the proposal if it has to rely on servers.
As an aside, even if firstbits it's not useful enough for the human
memory, it is still useful for QR-codes like in the case of green
addresses's POS instant payments.

Would it be too strange to use namecoin?
Some devices may need to rely on block exploring servers, but it is
the easiest decentralized solution that comes to mind.


2011/12/13, Zell Faze zellf...@yahoo.com:
 I agree with Luke-Jr.  We need to try to find a decentralized solution if we
 are going to implement BIP 15.  Bitcoin needs to remain decentralized in
 every aspect of the protocol or we lose its greatest strength.

 I feel like the HTTPS idea would be a great idea for a client feature, but
 not really something that should be added to the protocol.

 --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote:

 From: Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org
 Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases
 To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net, Amir Taaki
 zgen...@yahoo.com
 Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 5:32 PM
 FirstBits looks nice at glance, but
 is bound to create a gold-rush to grab
 every nice-looking FirstBits address.

 HTTPS is only as secure as the (centralized) CAs, thus not
 really any better
 than TXT records.

 I don't think an address of some form is avoidable.


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Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Luke-Jr
On Monday, December 12, 2011 6:37:56 PM Jorge Timón wrote:
 Would it be too strange to use namecoin?

This has the same problem as FirstBits, except .bit domains are dirt cheap, 
whereas vanitygen at least slows down grabbing all the common words...

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Will
Are there any PGP key servers that support EC key pairs?  OpenPGP Spec
RFC2440 defines key types for EC, just not sure if they were ever
implemented on the keyserver side.  Could even have a similar 'web of
trust' using private keys to sign people's identities similar to PGP.

Will

On 12 December 2011 23:16, Zell Faze zellf...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I agree with Luke-Jr.  We need to try to find a decentralized solution if
 we are going to implement BIP 15.  Bitcoin needs to remain decentralized in
 every aspect of the protocol or we lose its greatest strength.

 I feel like the HTTPS idea would be a great idea for a client feature, but
 not really something that should be added to the protocol.

 --- On Mon, 12/12/11, Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org wrote:

  From: Luke-Jr l...@dashjr.org
  Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] [BIP 15] Aliases
  To: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net, Amir Taaki 
 zgen...@yahoo.com
  Date: Monday, December 12, 2011, 5:32 PM
  FirstBits looks nice at glance, but
  is bound to create a gold-rush to grab
  every nice-looking FirstBits address.
 
  HTTPS is only as secure as the (centralized) CAs, thus not
  really any better
  than TXT records.
 
  I don't think an address of some form is avoidable.



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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Amir Taaki
 I'm confused about the problem we're trying to solve.

I was in brmlab and wanted to pay 1 BTC for a Club Mate. They had on the wall a 
picture of their QR code and a bitcoin address. I don't own a mobile phone so 
the QR code is 
useless. Then I remembered FirstBits, went to my terminal and typed 
1brmlab. I got their bitcoin address from the website and copied that, 
then opened my terminal and pasted that in to send 1 BTC.

And 
these proposals for Namecoin, would make bitcoin implementations 
dependent on unproven technology. HTTPS/DNSSEC have been around a long 
time and are responsible for many mission critical systems. There's a 
lot of momentum behind those projects. Namecoin by contrast, could die 
tomorrow. And it isn't a big deal that they're centralised. This is a 
convenience for end users and does not affect the core system much.

tl;dr: usability


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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: [BIP 15] Aliases

2011-12-12 Thread Daniel F
 I was in brmlab and wanted to pay 1 BTC for a Club Mate. They had on the wall 
 a picture of their QR code and a bitcoin address. I don't own a mobile phone 
 so the QR code is
 useless. Then I remembered FirstBits, went to my terminal and typed
 1brmlab. I got their bitcoin address from the website and copied that,
 then opened my terminal and pasted that in to send 1 BTC.

ok, imagine if firstbits didn't exist. instead of going to firstbits,
you would have gone to your terminal, opened up brmlabs website, and
copied the address from there?

there may be some arguments for name- address translation, but i'm
sorry to say, that your example is not one of them. if anything, it
seems to suggest that firstbits is completely useless, since it saves
approximately zero effort.

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