Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Mike Hearn
Modern Java versions let you bundle the app with a stripped down JVM. I
don't know if Jim does that, but I think it's an obvious step towards
making MultiBit friendlier and easier to use.

BTW I believe most secure browsers (Chrome, Firefox) have banned the applet
plugin or severely restrained it anyway. So even if you install the JVM and
plugin together there is not an issue.


On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:20 AM, Caleb James DeLisle 
calebdeli...@lavabit.com wrote:

 Java (Applet) security is indeed abysmal but lets compare apples to apples.
 With an applet some random guy with a website makes up some Java code and
 your browser automatically executes it.
 With Multibit you're only executing highly trusted code (so trusted that it
 handles your money).
 There has almost never been a Java exploit against secure trusted code.

 The idea of discouraging use of java apps just because people would be
 tricked into activating the browser plugin when installing the JVM is
 probably valid but Multibit is the only reasonably complete client outside
 of bitcoinqt and I think client diversity is more important than stamping
 out java.

 Thanks,
 Caleb


 On 07/08/2013 08:22 PM, Robert Backhaus wrote:
  But... Multibit is Java. Java's security problems has made it an instant
 uninstall item on windows PCs for about a year now. Java exploits are a
 dime a dozen.
 
  Yes, you can reduce some of the problems by manually disabling the
 browser plugin, but how many users will do that?
 
  Recommending a fast SPV client as a first wallet - yes, of course.
 Recommending users open such a huge attack interface on their computers by
 installing Java - No go. Until Multibit is provided as a compiled binary
 without a Java dependency, it is DOA.
 
 
  On 1 July 2013 02:39, Gary Rowe g.r...@froot.co.uk mailto:
 g.r...@froot.co.uk wrote:
 
  I've beefed up the supporting documentation for the website to make
 it more accessible for developers who wish to contribute. It's a Java
 application serving HTML.
 
  It can be found here: https://github.com/jim618/multibit-website
 
 
  On 30 June 2013 16:19, Jim jim...@fastmail.co.uk mailto:
 jim...@fastmail.co.uk wrote:
 
  Yeah email jim' was never going to work so I have
  bumped up MultiBit support (a bit) by:
 
  + having a dedicated Support page on the website
 https://multibit.org/support.html
 It has fixes and support notes for the most common gotchas.
  + the in-app help also now has a 'Support' section with
 Troubleshooting' and the commonest gotchas.
 I've also written more help to cover as much as possible.
  + Failing that people are directed first to
 bitcoin.stackchange.com http://bitcoin.stackchange.com
 (I have a notification set up for the 'multibit' keyword.
  + Then finally users are directed to the github issues to search
 existing or raise a new issue. Gary and Tim often chip in on
 there to
 close
 issues down as well as me.
 
 
 
  On Sun, Jun 30, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
   Sounds like we have consensus, Saivann, shall we do it?
  
   I'm also going to ask Theymos again to relax the newbie
 restrictions
   for the alt client forums. It's probably too hard to get
 support at
   the moment and email jim doesn't scale at all.
  
   On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Gavin Andresen 
 gavinandre...@gmail.com mailto:gavinandre...@gmail.com
   wrote:
I vote yes to have MultiBit replace Bitcoin-Qt as the
 recommended
desktop wallet app. I think most users will be happier with
 it.
   
If I'm wrong, it is easy to change back.
   
   
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Daniel F
on 07/09/2013 06:56 AM Jim said the following:
 + it will bump up the MultiBit download from about 11MB to 30-40MB 
 (I think). This drops the maximum copies of MultiBit the multibit.org 
 server can deliver per day from around 90,000 to 30,000ish. 
 The multibit.org server maxes out at 1 TB of bandwidth per day.

You could host your downloads on sourceforge and achieve virtually
unlimited capacity.

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Daniel F nanot...@gmail.com wrote:
 on 07/09/2013 06:56 AM Jim said the following:
 + it will bump up the MultiBit download from about 11MB to 30-40MB
 (I think). This drops the maximum copies of MultiBit the multibit.org
 server can deliver per day from around 90,000 to 30,000ish.
 The multibit.org server maxes out at 1 TB of bandwidth per day.

 You could host your downloads on sourceforge and achieve virtually
 unlimited capacity.

Indeed.  There is no reason to worry about download bandwidth these
days, for open source software downloads.

Move the downloads to a site where such worries do not exist.

-- 
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Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc.  https://bitpay.com/

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Jim
For those interested in these things the multibit.org server
is a dedicated server hosted by the German company
http://www.server4you.net. 

It is physically located in the delightful city of Strasbourg, 
just on the French side of the French German border.



On Tue, Jul 9, 2013, at 03:28 PM, Mike Hearn wrote:
 SourceForge has a horrible UI and blocks some countries. It also exposes
 us
 to a large and potentially hackable mirror network. Whilst we're not
 bandwidth constrained on our own servers, let's try and keep using them.
 
 
 On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote:
 
  On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Daniel F nanot...@gmail.com wrote:
   on 07/09/2013 06:56 AM Jim said the following:
   + it will bump up the MultiBit download from about 11MB to 30-40MB
   (I think). This drops the maximum copies of MultiBit the multibit.org
   server can deliver per day from around 90,000 to 30,000ish.
   The multibit.org server maxes out at 1 TB of bandwidth per day.
  
   You could host your downloads on sourceforge and achieve virtually
   unlimited capacity.
 
  Indeed.  There is no reason to worry about download bandwidth these
  days, for open source software downloads.
 
  Move the downloads to a site where such worries do not exist.
 
  --
  Jeff Garzik
  Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist
  BitPay, Inc.  https://bitpay.com/
 
 
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Daniel F
on 07/09/2013 10:28 AM Mike Hearn said the following:
 SourceForge has a horrible UI and blocks some countries. It also exposes
 us to a large and potentially hackable mirror network. Whilst we're not
 bandwidth constrained on our own servers, let's try and keep using them.

the point was just that if need be free capacity is available without
having to throw money at it. until there's no need, doesn't matter.

also hackability (and ui) should be irrelevant for the autoupdate
process (which i presume will do all kinds of checksum and sig
verification). and it's likely the autoupdates that will create very
lumpy download demand.


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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Mike Hearn
That's true - we could serve new users off our own servers and auto updates
off SF.net mirrors, potentially.


On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Daniel F nanot...@gmail.com wrote:

 on 07/09/2013 10:28 AM Mike Hearn said the following:
  SourceForge has a horrible UI and blocks some countries. It also exposes
  us to a large and potentially hackable mirror network. Whilst we're not
  bandwidth constrained on our own servers, let's try and keep using them.

 the point was just that if need be free capacity is available without
 having to throw money at it. until there's no need, doesn't matter.

 also hackability (and ui) should be irrelevant for the autoupdate
 process (which i presume will do all kinds of checksum and sig
 verification). and it's likely the autoupdates that will create very
 lumpy download demand.



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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Nick Simpson
What about something like Cloudflare? Transparent to most and it'd help with 
your bandwidth issues.


Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote:
That's true - we could serve new users off our own servers and auto
updates
off SF.net mirrors, potentially.


On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Daniel F nanot...@gmail.com wrote:

 on 07/09/2013 10:28 AM Mike Hearn said the following:
  SourceForge has a horrible UI and blocks some countries. It also
exposes
  us to a large and potentially hackable mirror network. Whilst we're
not
  bandwidth constrained on our own servers, let's try and keep using
them.

 the point was just that if need be free capacity is available
without
 having to throw money at it. until there's no need, doesn't matter.

 also hackability (and ui) should be irrelevant for the autoupdate
 process (which i presume will do all kinds of checksum and sig
 verification). and it's likely the autoupdates that will create very
 lumpy download demand.




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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Nick Simpson
Not any more than sourceforge or github.. None of these solutions are 
replacements, but rather only supplements to self hosted files.

Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Nick Simpson n...@mynicknet.com
wrote:
 What about something like Cloudflare? Transparent to most and it'd
help with
 your bandwidth issues.

Cloudflare is rapidly becoming a bitcoin community SPOF.
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Johnathan Corgan
On 07/09/2013 08:32 AM, Nick Simpson wrote:

 What about something like Cloudflare? Transparent to most and it'd help
 with your bandwidth issues.

By way of endorsement, at the GNU Radio Project we switched to
CloudFlare's free service tier a few months ago.  We host on AWS EC2 our
own web servers, downloads, and git repositories.  CloudFlare has
reduced our bandwidth bill by about 50%, with very little pain.

-- 
Johnathan Corgan
Corgan Labs - SDR Training and Development Services
http://corganlabs.com



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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Mike Hearn
That's good to know. Still, at the moment we'd need to dramatically
increase the download size and increase Bitcoin usage by 10x to hit our
limits. It'd be a good problem to have.


On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Johnathan Corgan
johnat...@corganlabs.comwrote:

 On 07/09/2013 08:32 AM, Nick Simpson wrote:

  What about something like Cloudflare? Transparent to most and it'd help
  with your bandwidth issues.

 By way of endorsement, at the GNU Radio Project we switched to
 CloudFlare's free service tier a few months ago.  We host on AWS EC2 our
 own web servers, downloads, and git repositories.  CloudFlare has
 reduced our bandwidth bill by about 50%, with very little pain.

 --
 Johnathan Corgan
 Corgan Labs - SDR Training and Development Services
 http://corganlabs.com



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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: MultiBit as default desktop client on bitcoin.org

2013-07-09 Thread Andreas Petersson
It particulary worries me that a lot of sites hand over their SSL
private keys to Cloudflare, and they are located in prism land.

 Cloudflare is rapidly becoming a bitcoin community SPOF.


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