Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0.8.6 release candidate 1
On 9 December 2013 13:52, Roy Badami r...@gnomon.org.uk wrote: On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 01:39:51PM +, Drak wrote: Someone needs to update the bitcoin.org website, it still points downloads to 0.8.5 Perhaps because 0.8.6 hasn't been released yet? Or did I miss the announcement? I think it makes sense that release candidates are not promoted on bitcoin.org. It was released and it's all over bitcointalk/reddit -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0.8.6 release candidate 1
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Drak d...@zikula.org wrote: Why would it be made available for download at sourceforge.net if it's not actually released? The files are available here: Because it takes time to put the files up, propagate to mirrors, check by multiple people that the downloads work an the signatures pass. Every release comes with a release announcement, you'll know its out when you see the release announcement. The alternative is that announcements go out and the files are not correct, or hide the files in the release pipeline and allow less public participation in the release workflow. I think that would be unfortunate. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0.8.6 release candidate 1
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Drak d...@zikula.org wrote: looking sticky posts at bitcointalk like this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364353.0. Was that an official announcement? Yes. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
[Bitcoin-development] [Patch] bitcoin for Fedora = 20
Interesting post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364877.0 Would be worth a try :-) I'd like to see bitcoin running on Fedora = 20 out of the box. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
[Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
This is no doubt probably a very controversial Bitcoin Improvement Proposal and is also a very rough draft of one. Bitcoin lacks a Central Bank. This is good and bad. A central bank benefits those with political connections. But Bitcoin lacks price stability, this generates menu costs, and incentivizes speculation. I propose the creation of a monetary authority for Bitcoin that sets block reward to a new mathematical formula. The velocity of the Bitcoins that are in circulation likely approaches 100,000x per year as compared to 1x - 4x for the USD. This in itself is not bad. But given that only 10% to 20% of Bitcoins are circulating, this means that the price of Bitcoin is decided largely through speculation. In fact the price of a Bitcoin is irrelevant to those who use Bitcoins as a currency because it appears the majority of coins being used are immediately being sold and repurchased in the exchanges for the sole purpose of buying goods. Unless Bitcoins can be used to purchase intermediate goods and have a closed economic ecosystem, Bitcoin will be too vulnerable to speculation and would not be a viable currency. But the development of a closed economic ecosystem is stymied by the uncertainty of Bitcoin prices and speculation. Fortunately the infrastructure for transacting Bitcoin has long been established, with many major exchanges. Nearly all major exchanges announce recent prices. At the point when a block is generated, the miner will also add the exchange price of bitcoin between various other currencies and crypto-currencies to the blockchain. The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. With every new block, the miner will compare the cumulative percentage change in the exchange price of Bitcoin over the previous 432 blocks. The standard deviation of the percentage change in exchange rates will be calculated. Outliers will be excluded, this is so that in case x-currency suffers from hyperinflation, the x-currency will be ignored. It is extremely unlikely for all the world’s currencies to be suffering from hyperinflation caused by monetary expansion as opposed to a supply shock. Every 432 blocks the block reward will be reevaluated. For every 5% increase in the geometric mean of Bitcoin exchange rates in relation to the world’s currencies would increase the block reward by 3%. A 5% decrease in the geometric mean of Bitcoin exchange rates will decrease the block reward by 3%. Changes in the exchange rates of less than 5% will not alter the block reward. The minimum block reward will be one Bitcoin. Why is this better then the current system? Very simple, we are still dependent on banks. Currently Bitcoin is poised to replace Visa and Paypal, not the Federal Reserve. Bitcoin will be less efficient then Visa and Paypal because it takes times to transfer money out of exchanges to one's bank account and vice versa. In order for Bitcoin to replace the US dollar, it needs to not be a more complex version of a debit card. It needs to have a closed economic ecosystem, where all transactions are done in Bitcoin (Consumer Merchant Wholesaler Factory), and the only people who use the exchanges are merchants who need to and those who wish to gamble on Bitcoin. In order for Bitcoin to have widespread acceptance, it needs price stability. My proposal won't peg the Bitcoin to any one currency, but it would reduce month to month variability in relation to a basket of currencies and discourage views that it's speculative. Look at the current system, it's not healthy and it's not a currency. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. My proposal will still allow for 4.9% semi-weekly variations in the price of Bitcoin, allowing for it to appreciate 11,800% per year. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 02:01:07PM -0800, Ryan Carboni wrote: This is no doubt probably a very controversial Bitcoin Improvement Proposal and is also a very rough draft of one. Ryan, you can stop there already because any change to the inflation formula (supposing such a thing is even possible, which it's not) would be a violation of the trust of those holding the currency, who obtained it while believing that its inflation algorithm would not change. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school. --Edward Snowden -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
For what it's worth, once upon a time I pushed this agenda on Bitcointalk. I'd say early 2011 or so. The response I got was so strong and unanimous in favor of this point being absolutely non-negotiable that if the money supply were anything other than fixed, Bitcoin may as well be pretend e-dollars. I was not just persuaded against it, I was put in my place. I believe that if there ever becomes a consensus that Bitcoin's inflation parameters were a show-stopper for the Bitcoin economy, that the power to correct it lies with merchants, who would vote for changing the rules. I believe they would do this not by changing Bitcoin, but by accepting, in parallel, a brand new alt coin that reflects the consensus as to how the inflation should be. I believe such an alt coin would have its genesis at around the time that consensus moved toward accepting inflation, rather than adopting the seignorage of some other alt coin out there today. Mike/Casascius From: Ryan Carboni [mailto:ryan.jc...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 3:24 PM To: apoels...@wpsoftware.net Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. My proposal will still allow for 4.9% semi-weekly variations in the price of Bitcoin, allowing for it to appreciate 11,800% per year. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Andrew Poelstra as...@sfu.camailto:as...@sfu.ca wrote: On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 02:01:07PM -0800, Ryan Carboni wrote: This is no doubt probably a very controversial Bitcoin Improvement Proposal and is also a very rough draft of one. Ryan, you can stop there already because any change to the inflation formula (supposing such a thing is even possible, which it's not) would be a violation of the trust of those holding the currency, who obtained it while believing that its inflation algorithm would not change. -- Andrew Poelstra Email: apoelstra at wpsoftware.nethttp://wpsoftware.net Web: http://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school. --Edward Snowden -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
To piggyback on Jeff, Any proposal that is going to add reliance upon data from third parties outside of the Bitcoin network itself is likely going to be rejected outright. This opens far too many potential vulnerabilities. The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Yeah... you can't just gloss over a little detail like that. There must be consensus between the miners, otherwise a solved block will be rejected by a miner's peers. -- Jameson Lopp Software Engineer Bronto Software, Inc On 12/09/2013 06:10 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
I've got a better idea. Ben Bernake needs a new job. Let's just let him set the block reward. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Jameson Lopp jameson.l...@gmail.com wrote: To piggyback on Jeff, Any proposal that is going to add reliance upon data from third parties outside of the Bitcoin network itself is likely going to be rejected outright. This opens far too many potential vulnerabilities. The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Yeah... you can't just gloss over a little detail like that. There must be consensus between the miners, otherwise a solved block will be rejected by a miner's peers. -- Jameson Lopp Software Engineer Bronto Software, Inc On 12/09/2013 06:10 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
Bitcoin is made of many parts, yes, but not all parts were developed simultaneously. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.comwrote: The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. That is like saying We need a way to travel around the world quickly. There will be an anti-gravity technology; how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Or, in other words, you are ignoring exactly the sticky, difficult problem that would have to be solved for your proposal to have any chance of working. -- -- Gavin Andresen -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
You're just closed minded. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:23 PM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.com wrote: It is not a violation of the trust of those holding the currency. Many people bought Bitcoin in the hopes that it's value in the relation of other currencies will increase, not because there's a fixed money supply. The majority of people using Bitcoin as a currency in exchange for real goods are using the exchanges. Your proposal has been met with widespread laughter. Were I not ill with the flu, mockery would ensue as well. -- Jeff Garzik Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
Ryan Carboni wrote: Bitcoin lacks a Central Bank. This is a feature, not a bug. Also, this is offtopic. Political debate is thataway -. bitcoin-development is for development and technical discussion. -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Monetary Authority for Bitcoin
+1 On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Ryan Carboni ryan.jc...@gmail.comwrote: The exchanges that are kept track of could be hard coded into Bitcoin or the miner could choose, how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. That is like saying We need a way to travel around the world quickly. There will be an anti-gravity technology; how this works is not something I'm personally focused on. Or, in other words, you are ignoring exactly the sticky, difficult problem that would have to be solved for your proposal to have any chance of working. -- -- Gavin Andresen -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0.8.6 release candidate 1
On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 02:55:02PM +, Drak wrote: On 9 December 2013 13:52, Roy Badami r...@gnomon.org.uk wrote: On Mon, Dec 09, 2013 at 01:39:51PM +, Drak wrote: Someone needs to update the bitcoin.org website, it still points downloads to 0.8.5 Perhaps because 0.8.6 hasn't been released yet? Or did I miss the announcement? I think it makes sense that release candidates are not promoted on bitcoin.org. It was released and it's all over bitcointalk/reddit Oh, I see - so it was. It wasn't announced here though - is there some other list I need to be on, too? It would be nice if announcements like this were posted to a mailing list as well as bitcointalk.org (is there a bitcoin-announce list that I missed? If not, maybe there should be) roy -- Sponsored by Intel(R) XDK Develop, test and display web and hybrid apps with a single code base. Download it for free now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=111408631iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development