[Bitcoin-development] Merge mining
Merge mining lets Bitcoin miners support or attack an alt-coin without any additional cost for their proof-of-work. Since bitcoin miners have to install software to build and claim blocks in the alt-coin, the percentage of bitcoin hashing power reflected toward the alt-coin will follow some adoption curve based on convincing bitcoin miners to opt-in. Depending on where you are on that adoption curve or 'participation rate', you need [a lot] less than 51% of of total Bitcoin hashing power in order to 51% attack the alt-coin. But there's so much 'dry powder' out there (GPUs), I wonder if *not* supporting merge-mining is any better? At least the attacker has to do some unique PoW, so you hope it's costing them something. Relatively large amounts of hashing can definitely be deployed on target with zero startup cost, and perhaps very little runtime cost (botnets). I think the absolute cost of the PoW is very likely *not* the determining factor in preventing a 51% attack on all but one or two blockchains currently in existence. Do I understand correctly, the question here is mostly a matter a game theory? On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:14:05 -0800, Luke-Jr wrote: > On Monday, December 30, 2013 11:22:25 PM Peter Todd wrote: >> that you are using merge-mining is a red-flag because without majority, >> or >> at least near-majority, hashing power an attacker can 51% attack your >> altcoin at negligible cost by re-using existing hashing power. > > I strongly disagree on this isolated point. Using the same logic, > Bitcoin is > vulnerable to an attacker at negligible cost by re-using existing hashing > power from mining Namecoin. Any non-scam altcoin is pretty safe using > merged > mining, since any would-be attacker is going to have it in their > interests to > invest in the altcoin instead of attacking it. It's only the scam ones > that want to pump & dump with no improvements, that are really at risk > here. > > The rational decision for a non-scam altcoin, is to take advantage of > merged mining to get as much security as possible. There are also some > possible > tricks to get the full security of the bitcoin miners even when not all > participate in your altcoin (but this area probably needs some studying > to get right). > > Luke > -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Looking for GREAT C++ developer for exciting opportunity in bitcoin space
On Monday, December 30, 2013 11:22:25 PM Peter Todd wrote: > that you are using merge-mining is a red-flag because without majority, or > at least near-majority, hashing power an attacker can 51% attack your > altcoin at negligible cost by re-using existing hashing power. I strongly disagree on this isolated point. Using the same logic, Bitcoin is vulnerable to an attacker at negligible cost by re-using existing hashing power from mining Namecoin. Any non-scam altcoin is pretty safe using merged mining, since any would-be attacker is going to have it in their interests to invest in the altcoin instead of attacking it. It's only the scam ones that want to pump & dump with no improvements, that are really at risk here. The rational decision for a non-scam altcoin, is to take advantage of merged mining to get as much security as possible. There are also some possible tricks to get the full security of the bitcoin miners even when not all participate in your altcoin (but this area probably needs some studying to get right). Luke -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Looking for GREAT C++ developer for exciting opportunity in bitcoin space
On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 11:53:19AM -0700, Evan Duffield wrote: > Hello, > > We’re a startup looking for 1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is > familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup. > > We will be able to provide more information about the project after signing > a non-compete/non-disclosure agreement. Our coin will be one of the truly > unique coins that are not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code. In > short the project will be a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very > useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem. I would strongly suggest that if you have not done so already you hire someone competent to do an analysis of whether or not your idea makes sense at all; that you are using merge-mining is a red-flag because without majority, or at least near-majority, hashing power an attacker can 51% attack your altcoin at negligible cost by re-using existing hashing power. If you are starting a timestamping service that may be an exception, but how to turn a profit doing so is non-obvious. I would offer that consulting myself, but it would likely be a conflict of interest with my employers. I'd be happy to speak informally in private, but am explicitly unwilling to agree to any non-compete/non-disclosure terms. -- 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org 000f9102d27cfd61ea9e8bb324593593ca3ce6ba53153ff251b3 signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
[Bitcoin-development] New P2P microblogging project based on Bitcoin
Hi folks, I'd like to let you know about a new project based on Bitcoin + Libtorrent: twister - a new p2p microblogging platform. First of all, some kudos and apologies are due. Bitcoin and libtorrent are both well written, high quality C++ codebases and i'd like to thank all developers for their work. Apologies are for bastardizing those codebases and (forcibly) merging them together in order to try my P2P ideas. I wouldn't be able to have something working in just a few months if i did it differently. So the least I could do in retribution is offering write-access to the repository for bitcoin and libtorrent developers (for those who want it, of course). I won't add more details here because the site has plenty of information and i'm sure some people will not be interested anyway as we get offtopic. twister main site: http://twister.net.co white-paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.7152 regards, Miguel -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, & PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
