Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments

2014-02-25 Thread Stephane Brossier
Hi Mike, Jeremy, Drak, Before going through your questions, I would like to bring some clarity on a few key elements in that protocol. There are really two aspects to it: The contract negotiation; when the user first subscribes, it is prompted by a contract that will define the payment bounds as

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Odinn Cyberguerrilla
Am suggesting a (possible) mitigation of [possible flooding, etc], via some kind of discussion (potentially process BIP, related to bundling and / or randomization) not now, but down the road. However, needs more thought and analysis (you mentioned code audit?) before it could be floated around or

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments

2014-02-25 Thread Christophe Biocca
Given the enormous number of variations on time periods for a recurring payment, might it be better to simple allow a list of timestamps? It costs almost nothing, bandwidth wise, and shifts the thinking to the merchant platform. That doesn't give you an infinite time frame, but you just get a new l

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments

2014-02-25 Thread Jeremy Spilman
> > So in summary the spec needs daily as an option, and to specify the > recurring cycle as every n*period >(one of daily, weekly, monthly, > yearly): and you can drop quarterly since it's just expressed as per > >3*monthly. If you're going to go the direction of a {unitType, unitsPerInter

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments

2014-02-25 Thread Drak
Forgive me if I missed it, but the spec doesnt look like it can handle only handle periods of per week, per month, per quarter rather than 'n period'. I take Paypal as a reference example for subscription payments where you can set recurring to every: n days, n weeks, n months, n years. That way a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Jeremy Spilman
If I understand correctly, the risk here is this would open a historically large discrepancy between MIN_RELAY and the expected minimum fee to actually obtain block inclusion. I don't know if that's true, but I think that's what Peter is saying makes it different this time. The relay network does

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:25:58PM +0530, Mike Hearn wrote: Well, I've done my responsible disclosure, and I've got better things to do than argue with wishful thinking. > There are two possibilities. > > One is that the value of transactions with the new lower fee is outweighed > by increased o

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Mike Hearn
There are two possibilities. One is that the value of transactions with the new lower fee is outweighed by increased orphan costs and miners refuse to include them en-masse. Wallet authors lose the staring match and go back to setting higher fees until such a time as block propagation is optimised

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Extension for BIP-0070 to support recurring payments

2014-02-25 Thread Mike Hearn
Hey there, So the essence of this protocol is as follows: enum PaymentFrequencyType { WEEKLY = 1; MONTHLY = 2; QUARTERLY = 3; ANNUAL = 4; } message RecurringPaymentDetails { // Namespace for the merchant such as org.foo.bar required string merchant_

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 06:25:18PM +0530, Mike Hearn wrote: > Given that the fee drop puts fees in "real" (i.e. dollar) terms back to > where they were some months ago, it seems odd to claim this is creating > vulnerabilities that didn't exist in the previous version. The cost of an > attack would

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Mike Hearn
Given that the fee drop puts fees in "real" (i.e. dollar) terms back to where they were some months ago, it seems odd to claim this is creating vulnerabilities that didn't exist in the previous version. The cost of an attack would be the same as before. -

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fee drop

2014-02-25 Thread Odinn Cyberguerrilla
> So, just to be clear, we're adding, say, a memory limited mempool or > something prior to release so this fee drop doesn't open up an obvious > low-risk DDoS exploit right? As we all know, the network bandwidth > DoS attack mitigation strategy relies on transactions we accept to > mempools ge