Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-24 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
I think that's fair, so long as we limit bitcoin-development discussion to
issues that are relevant to the owners of the hashrate and companies that
pay developer salaries.

What I'm asking for is some honesty that Bitcoin is a centralized system
and to stop arguing technical points on the altar of distributed/decentralized
whatever. It's pretty clear if you want decentralized you should go with 
altchains.

I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be
more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system
in which I have the capability to audit the code that executes the trade.


On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 04:53:48PM -0700, Mark Friedenbach wrote:
 This isn't distributed-systems-development, it is bitcoin-development.
 Discussion over chain parameters is a fine thing to have among people
 who are interested in that sort of thing. But not here.
 
 On 03/23/2014 04:17 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
  I find it very irresponsible for Bitcoiners to on one hand extol the virtues
  of distributed systems and then in the same message claim any discussion
  about alternate chains as 'off-topic'.
  
  If bitcoin-core is for *distributed systems*, then all the different 
  altcoins
  with different hash algorithms should be viable topics for discussion.


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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fake PGP key for Gavin

2014-03-24 Thread The Doctor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 03/23/2014 03:12 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:

 I find it more likely that fake PGP keys are from corporate
 industrial espionage and/or organized crime outfits. Intelligence
 agencies will stick to compromised X509, network cards, and binary
 code blobs.

We're seeing the same thing happen to a couple of developers active in
the censorship circumvention problem space as well (though it's not
for the first time it's happened).

 Besides, why would an intelligence agency want your bitcoin when
 they can just intercept ASIC miners and make their own?

Perhaps they have other motives for attempting a cybil attack against
developers than trying to acquire Bitcoins.  Say, by making it easier
to subtitute alternate versions which are instrumented to make the
users easier to spy upon and later take down?

- -- 
The Doctor [412/724/301/703] [ZS]
Developer, Project Byzantium: http://project-byzantium.org/

PGP: 0x807B17C1 / 7960 1CDC 85C9 0B63 8D9F  DD89 3BD8 FF2B 807B 17C1
WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/

The enemies know the system. The allies do not. --Jay Jacobs

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iEYEAREKAAYFAlMwixgACgkQO9j/K4B7F8FQEACfQG8+5rYDuJd+6P50Bgc8RRfU
Q28AoNdyUbR2k05wTka30OcUUQNK5FcN
=IeMU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-24 Thread Mark Friedenbach
On 03/24/2014 01:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
 I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be
 more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system
 in which I have the capability to audit the code that executes the trade.

A discussion over such a system would be on-topic. Indeed I have made my
own proposals for systems with that capability in the past:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/31322676/

There's no reason to invoke alts however. There are ways where this can
be done within the bitcoin ecosystem, using bitcoins:

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32108143/

 I think that's fair, so long as we limit bitcoin-development discussion to
 issues that are relevant to the owners of the hashrate and companies that
 pay developer salaries.
 
 What I'm asking for is some honesty that Bitcoin is a centralized system
 and to stop arguing technical points on the altar of distributed/decentralized
 whatever. It's pretty clear if you want decentralized you should go with 
 altchains.

Bitcoin is not a centralized system, and neither is its development. I
don't even know how to respond to that. Bringing up altchains is a total
red herring.

This is *bitcoin*-development. Please don't make it have to become a
moderated mailing list.

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Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-24 Thread Luke-Jr
On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:47:02 AM Peter Todd wrote:
 To make a long story short, it was soon suggested that Bitcoin Core be
 forked - the software, not the protocol - and miners encouraged to
 support it.

There's been at least one public miner-oriented fork of Bitcoin Core since 0.7 
or earlier. Miners still running vanilla Bitcoin Core are neglecting their 
duty to the community. That being said, the more forks, the better for 
decentralisation.

Luke

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