Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:43:34PM -0700, Mark Friedenbach wrote: Btw, any chance we could get a summary description of tree-chains posted to bitcoin-development? Sure: Introduction Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the most fundemental of them is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Gavin Andresen
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update the state of the UTXO set, and the way Bitcoin is designed means that updating that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:28:51AM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 12:43:34PM -0700, Mark Friedenbach wrote: Btw, any chance we could get a summary description of tree-chains posted to bitcoin-development? Sure: Introduction BTW for those whose email

Re: [Bitcoin-development] New side channel attack that can recover Bitcoin keys

2014-03-25 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
This *could* be a useful feature, but only if it's generalizable to other processor architectures, and **in particular** has an implementation using dedicated silicon that has a **public** open-source hardware layout, so you can X-ray the chip, and confirm with a thermal imager that yes, the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] New side channel attack that can recover Bitcoin keys

2014-03-25 Thread Gavin Andresen
Y'all are getting deep into tinfoil-wearing-hat-conspiracy-theory territory. If you are worried about the NSA compromising your hardware or software, then use multisig transactions and sign on diverse hardware/software stacks. Generate the multiple private keys on different hardware/software

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:45:00AM -0400, Gavin Andresen wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the most fundemental of them is that to create a block you need to update the state of the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Mike Hearn
A few months ago I had a conversation with an executive at a Bitcoin company, and I suggested their developers should get involved with the development list. I was told that they are all subscribed but refuse to post. Puzzled, I asked why, maybe the process isn't clear or we didn't talk about what

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 For the record, tree chains is designed to be a soft-fork upgrade to bitcoin, at least if we can get the economics to work out. Assuming it does, you would do this by defining bitcoin itself to be the top level chain, and carrying what appear to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: For someone with 'Chief Scientist' as their job title, I'm surprised you think so little of hard evidence and so much of idol worshipping. Peter, take this unprofessional, personal crap off-list. Mike's anecdote of hostility

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Alan Reiner
I would echo the need for some kind of moderation. I believe Peter Todd is an extremely intelligent individual, who has a lot to offer the Bitcoin community. He has a firm grasp of a lot of really deep Bitcoin concepts and his *technical* insight is generally positive. Technically. But the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 OK, deal. You guys stop calling my concerns FUD, accusing me of having ulterior motives, etc. and I'll pay the same respect to you. On 25 March 2014 14:13:36 GMT-04:00, slush sl...@centrum.cz wrote: I fully agree, please keep friendly environment

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Ricardo Filipe
2014-03-25 13:49 GMT+00:00 Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:45:00AM -0400, Gavin Andresen wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a lot of issues at hand here, but the most fundemental of them is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Mark Friedenbach
I'm afraid I'm going to be the jerk that requested more details and then only nitpicks seemingly minor points in your introduction. But its because I need more time to digest the contents of your proposal. Until then: But moving value between chains is inconvenient; right now moving value

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
Peter, I think you and I both know there is WAAYY to much MONEY to be taken from naive end-users by the companies that employ people who call your concerns FUD. And for everyone else, I want to apologize in advance for anything I might happen to say that might be abrasive, arrogant, angry, or

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:40:40PM +, Ricardo Filipe wrote: 2014-03-25 13:49 GMT+00:00 Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 08:45:00AM -0400, Gavin Andresen wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Bitcoin doesn't scale. There's a

[Bitcoin-development] Privacy-Protecting Proof of Reserves without the Moon-Math and without the backup angst

2014-03-25 Thread Peter Todd
Introduction In the wake of the Mt. Gox debacle merkle-sum-trees for proof-of-reserve(1) have been getting attention again. A serious objection to using them is exchange privacy as the merkle-sum-tree inherently reveals the sum total of all deposits held by a given service. A second,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-25 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 01:57:14PM -0700, Mark Friedenbach wrote: On 03/24/2014 01:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system in which I have the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Tree-chains preliminary summary

2014-03-25 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Mark Friedenbach m...@monetize.io wrote: More importantly, to your last point there is absolutely no way this scheme can lead to inflation. The worst that could happen is theft of coins willingly put into the pegging pool. But in no way is it possible to