Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Wendell w...@hivewallet.com wrote: On that note, I think we have every possibility to make desktop and mobile wallets mind-numbingly simple -- and perhaps even do one better. Is this now a community priority? If so, I would really appreciate some additional

[Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
Hello, This is primarily aimed at developers of SPV wallets. The recently reported decrease in number of full nodes could have several reasons, one of them that less people are running Bitcoin Core for the wallet because the other wallets are getting ahead in both features and useability. It's

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Tamas Blummer
YES Such a bitcoind is what I called border router in a previous mail. Yes, SPV wallets are getting ahead of features, so people will use them also because on size just does not fit all, but all want to ensure being on the same trunk of the chain. Therefore serious user of Bitcoin run a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Brian Hoffman
How would this affect the user in terms of disk storage? They're going to get hammered on space constraints aren't they? If it's not required how likely are users to enable this? On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Wladimir laa...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, This is primarily aimed at developers of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Brian Hoffman brianchoff...@gmail.com wrote: How would this affect the user in terms of disk storage? They're going to get hammered on space constraints aren't they? If it's not required how likely are users to enable this? If Bitcoin core activates pruning a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Natanael natanae...@gmail.com wrote: This could probably be done fairly easily by bundling Stratum (it's not just for pools!) and allowing SPV wallets to ask Bitcoind to start it (if you don't use it, there's no need to waste the resources), and then connect to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Thomas Voegtlin
Le 09/04/2014 17:54, Gregory Maxwell a écrit : Sadly today Electrum requires more than a full node, it requires a number of large additional indexes over what a full node has and pruning is precluded. I don't think that increasing the resource utilization of the node is a good way to go there

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Tamas Blummer
I am glad that SPV wallets are discussed outside the scope of mobile devices! Yes, SPV is a sufficient API to a trusted node to build sophisticated features not offered by the core. SPV clients of the border router will build their own archive and indices based on their interest of the chain

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Mark Friedenbach
On 04/09/2014 09:09 AM, Tamas Blummer wrote: Yes, SPV is a sufficient API to a trusted node to build sophisticated features not offered by the core. SPV clients of the border router will build their own archive and indices based on their interest of the chain therefore the border router core

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Natanael natanae...@gmail.com wrote: This could probably be done fairly easily by bundling Stratum (it's not just for pools!) and allowing SPV wallets to ask Bitcoind to start it (if you don't use it, there's no need to waste the resources), and then connect to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Alex Mizrahi
1) It's more private. Bloom filters gives away quite accurate statistical information about what coins you own to whom ever you happen to be connected too. An attacker can easily use this to deanonymize you even if you don't reuse addresses; Tor does not help much against this attack. There

[Bitcoin-development] Fwd: Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Brian Hoffman brianchoff...@gmail.comwrote: How would this affect the user in terms of disk storage? They're going to get hammered on space constraints aren't they? If it's not required how likely are users to enable this? If they make the (conscious) choice

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Alex Mizrahi alex.mizr...@gmail.com wrote: 1) It's more private. Bloom filters gives away quite accurate statistical information about what coins you own to whom ever you happen to be connected too. An attacker can easily use this to deanonymize you even if you

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 9 April 2014 13:33:19 GMT-04:00, Alex Mizrahi alex.mizr...@gmail.com wrote: 1) It's more private. Bloom filters gives away quite accurate statistical information about what coins you own to whom ever you happen to be connected too. An

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 9 April 2014 12:27:13 GMT-04:00, Tamas Blummer ta...@bitsofproof.com wrote: A border router that is not able to serve blocks is still protecting consensus rules, that SPVs do not. If the network would only consist of SPV nodes only then e.g. a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Tamas Blummer
Block header has to be available in SPV and also in an UTXO only storing core node, so why not serve it if bandwith allows. Serving any additional information like known peer adresses or known full blocks is certainly beneficial and should be offered if at hand. Regards, Tamas Blummer

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Mike Hearn
The right way to start with this, if anyone cares, is to add instrumentation to existing SPV wallet apps to report back to home base how long they are running for, how much disk space / RAM they have, and possibly what kind of hardware. I *strongly* suspect that the vast majority of SPV wallets

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Peter Todd
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 9 April 2014 13:50:03 GMT-04:00, Tamas Blummer ta...@bitsofproof.com wrote: Block header has to be available in SPV and also in an UTXO only storing core node, so why not serve it if bandwith allows. Serving any additional information like

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:00 PM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: The right way to start with this, if anyone cares, is to add instrumentation to existing SPV wallet apps to report back to home base how long they are running for, how much disk space / RAM they have, and possibly what kind of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Kevin
On 4/9/2014 11:29 AM, Wladimir wrote: Hello, This is primarily aimed at developers of SPV wallets. The recently reported decrease in number of full nodes could have several reasons, one of them that less people are running Bitcoin Core for the wallet because the other wallets are getting

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Justus Ranvier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/09/2014 06:19 PM, Wladimir wrote: If no one wants to volunteer resources to support the network anymore, we'll have failed. If the security of the network depends on a broken incentive model, then fix the design of the network so that

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Justus Ranvier justusranv...@gmail.comwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/09/2014 06:19 PM, Wladimir wrote: If no one wants to volunteer resources to support the network anymore, we'll have failed. If the security of the network

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Justus Ranvier justusranv...@gmail.com wrote: If the security of the network depends on a broken incentive model, then fix the design of the network so that economics works for you instead of against you. Who says anything about a broken incentive model. You've

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Justus Ranvier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/09/2014 06:50 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: Who says anything about a broken incentive model. You've made past claims about resource requirements that I think made no sense and then failed to defend them when they were challenge. Anyone

[Bitcoin-development] Jenkins pull-tester

2014-04-09 Thread Drak
I would like to set up my own bitcoin pull-tester on Jenkins. Are there any instructions or guidance written anywhere? Drak -- Put Bad Developers to Shame Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Thomas Voegtlin thoma...@gmx.de wrote: Le 09/04/2014 17:54, Gregory Maxwell a écrit : Sadly today Electrum requires more than a full node, it requires a number of large additional indexes over what a full node has and pruning is precluded. I don't think

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Justus Ranvier justusranv...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone reading the archives of the list will see about triple the number of people independently confirming the resource usage problem than they will see denying it, so I'm not particularly worried. The list has

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread slush
I believe there're plenty bitcoind instances running, but they don't have configured port forwarding properly.There's uPNP support in bitcoind, but it works only on simple setups. Maybe there're some not yet considered way how to expose these *existing* instances to Internet, to strenghten the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread slush
Another idea: Integrate torrent download of bootstrap.dat into bitcoind. Normal user (especially a beginner) won't learn how to download bootstrap separately and import it into bitcoind; he simply give up the synchronization once he realize it takes too much time. From my experience downloading

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 10:12 PM, slush sl...@centrum.cz wrote: Maybe there're other ideas how to improve current situation without needs of reworking the architecture. Nothing I've proposed here would require larger changes to the architecture then were already planned. After SPV lands we are

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Wladimir
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 10:31 PM, slush sl...@centrum.cz wrote: Another idea: Integrate torrent download of bootstrap.dat into bitcoind. Normal user (especially a beginner) won't learn how to download bootstrap separately and import it into bitcoind; he simply give up the synchronization once

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Laszlo Hanyecz
On Apr 9, 2014, at 8:12 PM, slush sl...@centrum.cz wrote: These days IPv6 is slowly deploying to server environments, but maybe there's some simple way how to bundle ipv6 tunnelling into bitcoind so any instance will become ipv6-reachable automatically? Teredo is available by default

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Mark Friedenbach
I've advocated for this in the past, and reasonable counter-arguments I was presented with are: (1) bittorrent is horribly insecure - it would be easy to DoS the initial block download if that were the goal, and (2) there's a reasonable pathway to doing this all in-protocol, so there's no reason

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoind-in-background mode for SPV wallets

2014-04-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Mark Friedenbach m...@monetize.io wrote: (2) there's a reasonable pathway to doing this all in-protocol, so there's no reason to introduce external dependencies. Not just a speculative pathway. Pieter implemented headers first: