Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging?
Is there a relatively easy way to switch between Testnet versions in the client? On the forums I am in discussion with one member who mentioned the idea of a Main net, a testnet and a "beta-net" where the coins on the beta-net would be allowed to have value. It seems like simple and logical way to do this would be something like a "testnet=1, testnetversion=3" in the bitcoin.conf file. Is this possible? On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Dennison Bertram < denni...@dennisonbertram.com> wrote: > Why use ripple and not just use the testnet? > > The advantageous of allowing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are > That Non standard transactions can be tested in a pseudo live environment > where because the coins have some nominal value people are incentivized to > try and steal and come up with clever ways of gamin the system. This sort > of knowledge would be invaluable if non standard transactions are ever > going to become a reality on main net. > > It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance new technologies > and services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net but might be > enabled in the future at which point they can switch over to main net. > Additionally without any development happening with non standard > transactions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might be a > strong argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as the > risk of doing so might not justify in many people's minds the benefits as > if no one develops anything in advance most users might not find the > theoretical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling the > full potential of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act as > an alt coin something cool might be developed that the main net users might > desire enough to overcome the inertia of the status quo. > > Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non > standard transactions might be enabled might be so far in the future when > bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far more > political negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that > perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might > e required. > > Dennison > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho > wrote: > > > > > On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam Back wrote: > >> Is there a way to experiment with new features - eg committed coins - that >> doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt >> impose >> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk? >> >> eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it >> bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the >> mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no >> native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to >> move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1 >> cryptographically, no exchange). >> >> Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and >> maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new >> feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins >> on bitcoin-staging. >> >> Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live system, >> with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking >> bitcoins >> parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something >> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the >> main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against >> >> It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because >> some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest >> without more real activity. >> >> Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them >> after >> extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early >> adopters). >> > > Interesting idea. I wonder if ripple could be used to set up a transfer > system between the 'main' and 'staging' systems ... > > >> >> Adam >> >> >> -- >> AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete >> security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and >> efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls >> from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free
Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging?
Why use ripple and not just use the testnet? The advantageous of allowing testnet to be used as an alt-coin are That Non standard transactions can be tested in a pseudo live environment where because the coins have some nominal value people are incentivized to try and steal and come up with clever ways of gamin the system. This sort of knowledge would be invaluable if non standard transactions are ever going to become a reality on main net. It also allows developers a chance to develop in advance new technologies and services that currently won't run on bitcoin main net but might be enabled in the future at which point they can switch over to main net. Additionally without any development happening with non standard transactions as currently there is no economic incentive , there might be a strong argument to never bother enabling non standard transactions as the risk of doing so might not justify in many people's minds the benefits as if no one develops anything in advance most users might not find the theoretical possibilities worth the risk, thus permanently hobbling the full potential of satoshis idea. Rather if testnet were allowed to act as an alt coin something cool might be developed that the main net users might desire enough to overcome the inertia of the status quo. Additionally it should be considered that the time in the future when non standard transactions might be enabled might be so far in the future when bitcoin has hit mass adoption and changing anything might require far more political negotiations between users and devs then currently. Meaning that perhaps much more proof of functionality and value as well as testing might e required. Dennison Sent from my iPhone On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote: > > > > On 19 May 2013 15:23, Adam Back wrote: >> Is there a way to experiment with new features - eg committed coins - that >> doesnt involve an altcoin in the conventional sense, and also doesnt impose >> a big testing burden on bitcoin main which is a security and testing risk? >> >> eg lets say some form of merged mine where an alt-coin lets call it >> bitcoin-staging? where the coins are the same coins as on bitcoin, the >> mining power goes to bitcoin main, so some aspect of merged mining, but no >> native mining. and ability to use bitcoins by locking them on bitcoin to >> move them to bitcoin-staging and vice versa (ie exchange them 1:1 >> cryptographically, no exchange). >> >> Did anyone figure anything like that out? Seems vaguely doable and >> maybe productive. The only people with coins at risk of defects in a new >> feature, or insufficiently well tested novel feature are people with coins >> on bitcoin-staging. >> >> Yes I know about bitcoin-test this is not it. I mean a real live system, >> with live value, but that is intentionally wanting to avoid forking bitcoins >> parameters, nor value, nor mindshare dillution. In this way something >> potentially interesting could move forward faster, and be les risky to the >> main bitcoin network. eg particularly defenses against >> >> It might also be a more real world test test (after bitcoin-test) because >> some parameters are different on test, and some issues may not manifest >> without more real activity. >> >> Then also bitcoin could cherry pick interesting patches and merge them after >> extensive real-world validation with real-money at stake (by early >> adopters). > > Interesting idea. I wonder if ripple could be used to set up a transfer > system between the 'main' and 'staging' systems ... > >> >> Adam >> >> -- >> AlienVault Unified Security Management (USM) platform delivers complete >> security visibility with the essential security capabilities. Easily and >> efficiently configure, manage, and operate all of your security controls >> from a single console and one unified framework. Download a free trial. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/alienvault_d2d >> ___ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: > > Build for Windows Store. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo
Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging?
That is true, but someone is already running it as a service on the blockchain
itself. See:
https://www.proofofexistence.com/
You can imagine similar services cropping up for things like torrents, sending
btc tweets, etc. While I am not saying these things are particularly refined
ideas in and of themselves, people should have an opportunity to play with
them, and better testnet.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 15, 2013, at 3:57 AM, "Luke-Jr" wrote:
> Timestamping ("proof of existence") doesn't need a coin at all. Just collect
> all the hashes you need timestamped into a PoE merkle tree and add that to
> the
> merged mining MT. It's pretty simple and straightforward, just needs someone
> to implement it.
>
> On Saturday, June 15, 2013 12:09:09 AM Dennison Bertram wrote:
>> Have your seen 'proof of existence'? It's basically a bitcoin notary
>> service that proves a document existed before it gets inserted into the
>> blockchain. While a good idea- you could argue that it's blockchain spam
>> as well- especially if one were to adapt it to high volumes in the future
>> for notarizing permanently things like tweets (for example) or combining
>> it with something like colored coins. These are great ideas, but maybe
>> better suited to a proto bitcoin without needing to fashion a brand new
>> coin.
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] is there a way to do bitcoin-staging?
It seems so much easier to just allow bitcoin testnet to be used more widely for larger scale bitcoin staging. People can assign value as they wish to testnet bitcoins but at their own risk/peril. This incremental amount of value though would allow for testing of larger ideas, ideas that perhaps might not be appropriate in their nascent stages to apply for bitcoin. Have your seen 'proof of existence'? It's basically a bitcoin notary service that proves a document existed before it gets inserted into the blockchain. While a good idea- you could argue that it's blockchain spam as well- especially if one were to adapt it to high volumes in the future for notarizing permanently things like tweets (for example) or combining it with something like colored coins. These are great ideas, but maybe better suited to a proto bitcoin without needing to fashion a brand new coin. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 14, 2013, at 11:25 PM, Andreas Petersson wrote: > my initial idea (not sure if it is good) was to have an asymetric market. > lets say you want to create altcoin ALC. ALC are merge-mined with btc, > though without block reward. > to create 1 ALC you have two choices: destroy 1 BTC, or buy 1 ALC for a > floating amount from an exchange. > > in my book, this would automatically lead to a slightly lower price for > 1 ALC, and an automatic ceiling of 1 BTC, since you could always > sacrifice BTC to gain ALC. > but it would not diverge drastically lower, since apparently somebody > was willing to destroy 1 BTC to create it. maybe it could even trade > slightly higher because traded ALC could be spendable instantly while > sacrificed ALC would need a 120 blocks maturing period. > the "beauty" of that system is also it does not inflate the > cryptocurrency realm. > > Andreas > > Am 14.06.2013 23:10, schrieb Luke-Jr: >> Note that the "earn a mixture of BTC and TBC, but not both in full volume" >> only works for TBC because the price is by definition fixed with BTC. >> I'm not sure how you could implement something like this for an altcoin >> where >> the price is floating independently of Bitcoin.. that is, how you would know >> the right amount of Bitcoin to require sacrificed. > > > -- > This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: > > Build for Windows Store. > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- This SF.net email is sponsored by Windows: Build for Windows Store. http://p.sf.net/sfu/windows-dev2dev ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
