Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: Encrypt bitcoin messages
Excuse the ignorance, but there is something I’m not getting in this discussion. Given it’s a published protocol, with available source code running on an open P2P network, why would any messages between nodes benefit from being encrypted? Surely all the data being processed by the network is known to any persistent client node(s)? Seems like that solution is orthogonal to the root problem, where attackers could monitor the network and deduce IP addresses by e.g. mapping senders of transactions. From: Peter Todd Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 9:28 AM To: William Yager, bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 19 August 2014 21:19:43 GMT-04:00, William Yager wrote: >On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 8:14 PM, Peter Todd wrote: >> In any case, my suggestion of enabling hidden service support by >default >> adds both encryption and reasonably good authentication. > > >Enabling hidden service support by default would introduce an insanely >huge >attack surface. Hence my suggestion of separating that surface by using the standalone Tor binary, which runs under a different user to the Bitcoin Core binary. >And you're conflating two different things; using Tor is valuable to >Bitcoin because it would provide some anonymity. The encryption aspect >is >pretty much useless for us. First of all, without encryption we're leaking significant amounts of information to any passive attacker trying to trace the origin of Bitcoin transactions, a significant privacy risk. Secondly the upcoming v0.10's fee estimation implementation is quite vulnerable to Sybil attacks. Authentication and encryption are needed to make it secure from ISP-level targeting to ensure that your view of the network is representative. Tor support used in parallel with native connection is ideal here, as neither the Tor network nor your ISP alone can Sybil attack you. It's notable that Bitcoinj has already implemented Tor support for these same reasons. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: APG v1.1.1 iQFQBAEBCAA6BQJT8/mSMxxQZXRlciBUb2RkIChsb3cgc2VjdXJpdHkga2V5KSA8 cGV0ZUBwZXRlcnRvZGQub3JnPgAKCRAZnIM7qOfwhRZjCAC4PSpQ68qgtFMR77xf zXZLr/iMKX6yyJwXRj+vGi+0Ng/sv9NlYjYnDeflom37WlpGo/sCOFcVWImhnS2d kUFoUH92iXwRuEt/SN/LrHghkLWOxtVu9wa49eS/piGZFF3JWllk82MgdBZ6vjNw B6WuInEIurK+h8rUbAi2HjFkxVN0K0SsrFt/P0tHj10ABcMealBRoJh2Jx7fLNdS uTKddqeLyThEpLGNti3k+lhwQ2dA5RUBq6q3GUS/hWvTHRnU+viGMJSYv62LXRN5 t87BXRY/R9UBpnudf3TIlPtOuIWcv2LhlXVjvbDDQqwJkvB3Qf4ejE3RZ28S5IUr OBQH =Gy7X -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Slashdot TV. Video for Nerds. Stuff that matters. http://tv.slashdot.org/ ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development-- Slashdot TV. Video for Nerds. Stuff that matters. http://tv.slashdot.org/___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Going to tag 0.9.2 final
Was joking, but isn't the translation process back-ended with runtime tests to ensure that any stray chars etc cause the application to fail? > On 14/06/2014, at 1:49 pm, "Matt Whitlock" wrote: > >> On Saturday, 14 June 2014, at 1:42 pm, Un Ix wrote: >> How about a prize for anyone who can spot any "malicious" strings within >> next hour? > > I think it's more an issue of accidental breakage than any maliciousness. One > character in the wrong place in a language bundle somewhere can make the > difference between success and runtime failure, and it may not be immediately > apparent when running in unaffected locales. This kind of problem isn't > likely to result in data loss (or money loss, where money is data, is in > Bitcoin), but it could be enough to necessitate scrapping the whole release, > which would look bad and prompt users to question the dev team's quality > control process. -- HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] Going to tag 0.9.2 final
How about a prize for anyone who can spot any "malicious" strings within next hour? ;-) > On 14/06/2014, at 1:32 pm, "Wladimir" wrote: > >> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: >> As a general principle, I agree. Other projects have translation >> freeze points to address this. Although it is a small holistic risk, >> in theory, someone could maliciously change strings at the last minute >> in a language maintainers don't know well. > > I was just doing what was always done. In practice, the translations > follow a very different cycle than the rest of the code. Entering > translations as well as reviewing them happens inside Transifex. > > Sure, someone could "maliciously change strings". It's typical that > this little bikeshedding topic attracts so much attention. > > But if it makes all of you happy I won't do the translation update. > > Wladimir > > -- > HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions > Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems > Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. > Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration > http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- HPCC Systems Open Source Big Data Platform from LexisNexis Risk Solutions Find What Matters Most in Your Big Data with HPCC Systems Open Source. Fast. Scalable. Simple. Ideal for Dirty Data. Leverages Graph Analysis for Fast Processing & Easy Data Exploration http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpccsystems ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account
+1(bit) for your bit on bits. > On 4/05/2014, at 2:18 pm, "Aaron Voisine" wrote: > > Bit by bit, it's become clear that it's a bit much to worry even a > little bit that overloading the word "bit" would be every bit as bad > as a two bit horse with the bit between it's teeth that bit the hand > that feeds it, or a drill bit broken to bits after just a bit of use. > > Aaron > > There's no trick to being a humorist when you have the whole > government working for you -- Will Rodgers > > >> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Drak wrote: >> +1 >> >>> On 4 May 2014 02:06, "Chris Pacia" wrote: >>> >>> Absent a concerted effort to move to something else other than 'bits', I >>> would be willing to bet the nomenclature moves in that direction anyway. >>> 'Bits' is just a shorten word for 'millibits' (or microbits, if you >>> will). It's easier to say and my guess is people would tend to use it >>> naturally own their own. Kind of like 'bucks' for dollars. >>> >>> The other synergies are: >>> -bit is part of the word Bitcoin. The currency unit bit is part of a >>> whole bitcoin. >>> -bit symbolically represents the tech nature of the bitcoin. >>> -bit used to be a unit of money way back when. This largely reclaims it. >>> -when used as money bit when in references to a precession metal coin. >>> The name 'bitcoin' references that as well as the mimicking of the gold >>> standard in the protocol rules. >>> >>> All around I don't think there is a better fit. I doubt people will get >>> confused by it. The context it's used in will distinguish it from other >>> uses of the word. >>> On 05/03/2014 12:27 PM, Mike Caldwell wrote: I agree with the sentiment that most people don't understand either computer science or Bitcoin. The goal of getting people to understand enough about Bitcoin to use it is achievable and a goal that is "in scope" of our efforts. Getting them to understand computer science at large at the same time, less so. The fact that people routinely confuse RAM and hard drive sizes has much to do with the fact that the average lay person has little need to prioritize this as something to keep in the forefront. They don't get "horribly" confused, they just simply don't get worked up over what looks to them like a rounding error, much to the dismay of anyone who believes that everyone should be an expert at computer science. The average joe may assess (accurately from his perspective) that the distinction isn't important enough to merit significant mental resources and he is justified in not expending them that way even if someone else thinks he should. Poor understanding is precisely what a proper effort to name this would be to avoid. It is not frill or aesthetics, it is a planned targeting of language to achieve the clearest communication to the widest possible target audience using the language most likely to be understood by them in light of our objectives. It's marketing. Mike Sent from my iPhone > On May 3, 2014, at 9:49 AM, "Christophe Biocca" > wrote: > > Context as a disambiguator works fine when the interlocutors > understand the topics they're talking about. > Not a day goes by without me seeing "neurotypical people" get horribly > confused between RAM and Hard Drive sizes, because they share the same > units (not that that can be helped, as the units are supposed to be > the same, base 1000 vs 1024 notwithstanding). > > Bit (as a unit) is already really confusing for anyone who doesn't > deal with it on a regular basis. I think people who don't see an issue > are making an assumption based on their own lack of confusion. We > understand computer science AND Bitcoin. Most people have zero > understanding of either. > > Bitcoin already has a ton of issues with terrible names for things: > > - Mining (for transaction validation). > - Addresses (which are meant to be one-time use, and don't even really > exist at the network level). > - Wallets (which don't hold your bitcoins, can be copied, and all > backups can be stolen from equally). > > I end up having to make the distinctions obvious every time I explain > Bitcoin to someone new to it. There's an acceptable tradeoff here, > because there were arguably no better words to assign to these > concepts (although I'd argue mining is a really awful metaphor, and is > the one that prompts the most questions from people). Then add to the > pile a bunch of third parties naming themselves after parts of the > protocol (Coinbase,Blockchain.info). Not blaming them for it, but I've > definitiely seen average people get confused between "the blockchain" > and "blockchain.info" (not so much Coinbase, because that name doesn't > come up in beginner ex
Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
Think your example is not quite valid ... People say or write $88M or $45k I.e. use SI prefix as a suffix, else it would be more, not less, clear on what amount is being referred to. For me, "bits" are easy to say and one million as a factor is simple to understand. M-bits, kilobits, millibits, etc are never going to be used by folk in everyday transactions, IMHO Gavin > On 3/05/2014, at 10:40 am, "Luke Dashjr" wrote: > >> On Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:54:37 AM Ben Davenport wrote: >> My only addition is that I think we should all stop trying to attach SI >> prefixes to the currency unit. Name me another world currency that uses SI >> prefixes. No one quotes amounts as 63 k$ or 3 M$. The accepted standard at >> least in the US is , i.e. $63k or $3M. >> That may not be accepted form everywhere, but in any case it's an informal >> format, not a formal one. The important point is there should be one base >> unit that is not modified with SI prefixes. And I think the arguments are >> strong for that unit being = 100 satoshi. > > Huh? Your examples demonstrate the *opposite* of your point. 'k' and 'M' > *are* > the SI prefixes. People *do* use 63k USD, $63k, and $3M. I'll be the first > one > to admit SI is terrible, but I don't understand your argument here. > > Luke > > P.S. Note that SI units haven't actually ever been adopted, except by force > of > law. "Name me ... that uses SI" is a silly thing to say, since virtually all > naturally-or-freely-adopted units of any measure have been based on a number > that factor to twos and threes (not fives, like decimal). > > -- > "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE > Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get > unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available. > Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." > http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- "Accelerate Dev Cycles with Automated Cross-Browser Testing - For FREE Instantly run your Selenium tests across 300+ browser/OS combos. Get unparalleled scalability from the best Selenium testing platform available. Simple to use. Nothing to install. Get started now for free." http://p.sf.net/sfu/SauceLabs ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account
Tamas, "xbit" is only a typo or spelling error away from "XBT", and some folks may assume they refer to the same unit of measure, not knowing the new currency system as developers here do. From your email, I got the idea of using "x" as a suffix at the end of a number of bits e.g. 17500x, like cents or centavos. I guess this might clash with formal S.I. notation but it's easy to read and has less ambiguity, IMHO. > On 21/04/2014, at 2:21 pm, "Tamas Blummer" wrote: > > Here is one to please those looking for a “fully qualified” slang word, that > links with the official XBT: > > xbit (spoken: ex-bit) would rationalise XBT (where X comes from supranational > use) and is unique. > > I personally associate from x to six also supporting the 1e-6 divisor of > Bitcoin. > > Regarding XBT: No matter who used it for what. The way Bloomberg will use it > will define its use in finance, > and since that did not happen yet, we are not late to shape. > > Regards, > > Tamas Blummer > http://bitsofproof.com > >> On 21.04.2014, at 07:41, Pieter Wuille wrote: >> >> >> On Apr 21, 2014 3:37 AM, "Un Ix" wrote: >> > >> > Something tells me this would be reduced to a single syllable in common >> > usage I.e. bit. >> >> What units will be called colloquially is not something developers will >> determine. It will vary, depend on language and culture, and is not relevant >> to this discussion in my opinion. >> >> It may well be that people in some geographic or language area will end up >> (or for a while) calling 1e-06 BTC "bits". That's fine, but using that as >> "official" name in software would be very strange and potentially confusing >> in my opinion. As mentioned by others, that would seem to me like calling >> dollars "bucks" in bank software. Nobody seems to have a problem with having >> colloquial names, but "US dollar" or "euro" are far less ambiguous than >> "bit". I think we need a more distinctive name. >> >> -- >> Pieter >> -- >> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform >> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software >> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready >> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account
Something tells me this would be reduced to a single syllable in common usage
I.e. bit.
My 2 cents goes for "bit".
Because: Bitcoin is a digital currency, BTC starts with "bit", "bit" refers to
a small amount of something in its regular english usage and lastly 99.9876543%
of people on the planet don't know what a digital "bit" is yet ...
Gavin
> On 21/04/2014, at 9:20 am, "Mike Caldwell" wrote:
>
> My impression:
>
> Good because it is short, memorable, and pronounceable by speakers of most
> languages (though to most of the world that would be oo-bit, as "u" being
> "yu" is mostly an English thing)
>
> Downsides include the fact that μ is not a U, it just resembles one. It is a
> lowercase M in Greek, a live spoken language also studied by many, and
> calling it a U conveys a notion of global unawareness. And the potential for
> "XBT" to be 1e-6 BTC on the world stage would be huge, worth pursuing.
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 20, 2014, at 6:16 PM, "Justin A" wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> What about "ubit", pronounced "YOU-bit", representing 1e-6 bitcoin? Easy to
>> say, tied in a visual way to the metric micro, leaves the required 2 decimal
>> places for the marginally numerate.. What more could one want?
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, hi. My first post; plan to get involved over the southern hemisphere
>> winter if I can learn enough.
>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2014 4:32 PM, "Mike Caldwell" wrote:
>>> By culturally neutral I mean we avoid deliberately invoking a cultural
>>> reference in the name. For example "satoshi" would be a reference to
>>> Japanese culture just for being a common Japanese name regardless of who
>>> Satoshi turns out to be.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Apr 20, 2014, at 1:20 PM, "Christophe Biocca"
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Culturally neutral? "bit" in French phonetically collides with slang
>>> > for phallus ("bitte", with a silent "e"). Apparently it means "louse"
>>> > in Turkish as well.
>>> >
>>> > Not that this really would be avoidable with any short word (all the
>>> > short possible words are usually taken), but it's not neutral.
>>> >
>>> >> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Oliver Egginger
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> Hello,
>>> >>
>>> >> just my two 'cents':
>>> >>
>>> >> Terms arises by itself. Just as most people speak of coins when they
>>> >> mean bitcoins. I do not see that bitcoin is currently in common use
>>> >> except for speculation. Therefore no term for smaller units has
>>> >> established yet. No problem in my eyes. Time will tell.
>>> >>
>>> >> - oliver
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
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>>> >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
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>>> >
>>> > --
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>>>
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Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
Second this comment. A change like this so soon after mt gox debacle would be one more sign of bitcoins 'instability' for skeptics and average folk who read only headlines. In general, it seems some people are looking to try and change the publics mental price of BTC which is more of a non-technical challenge. Gavin > On 14/03/2014, at 12:21 am, "Troy Benjegerdes" wrote: > > > > Every volatility bump messes up expectations of what a bitcoin is worth, > so why are we bikeshedding uBTC vs mBTC? Just be done with it and do mBTC > now, and plan uBTC for just after the next price spike to $10KUSD or > whatever, > and then plan on rolling back to mBTC when the price crashes from altcoin > money supply inflation competition. > > >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 09:45:54AM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: >> >> >> Based on this seeming consensus, BitPay was headed towards uBTC >> internally, and hoped to coordinate messaging and rollout with others >> in the community. Ah well, proceed apace, and Bitcoin Wallet will >> catch up, I suppose. >> >> Multiple unit changes negatively impact users, but we are already there :/ >> >> >>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Wladimir wrote: >>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Jeff Garzik wrote: Resurrecting this topic. Bitcoin Wallet moved to mBTC several weeks ago, which was disappointing -- it sounded like the consensus was uBTC, and moving to uBTC later --which will happen-- may result in additional user confusion, thanks to yet another decimal place transition. >>> >>> >>> I've kind of given up getting any consensus about this, or even getting >>> people to care. >>> >>> Everyone agrees that a decimal shift would be good, but it's the same boring >>> shed painting discussion every time on how many decimals. In the end nothing >>> happens. >>> >>> I can't really blame Andreas for finally taking action and making the change >>> to mBTC. People in the community are familiar with mBTC because some >>> exchanges and price sites used mBTC (at least for a while when >$1000), also >>> mBTC seems to be catching on on reddit etc. >>> >>> Moving to muBTC (which in itself would be better because it is the final >>> unit change ever needed without hardfork) would require more coordinated >>> education effort. >>> >>> Wladimir >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Garzik >> Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist >> BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/ >> >> -- >> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book >> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their >> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, >> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech >> ___ >> Bitcoin-development mailing list >> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development > > -- > > Troy Benjegerdes 'da hozer' ho...@hozed.org > 7 elements earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soulgrid.coop > > Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel, > nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash > > > -- > Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book > "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their > applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, > this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech > ___ > Bitcoin-development mailing list > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development -- Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available. Download your free book today! http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech ___ Bitcoin-development mailing list Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
