Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-28 Thread Warren Togami Jr.
On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Troy Benjegerdes ho...@hozed.org wrote: Either the transaction fees are sufficient to pay the cost for whatever random junk anyone wants to put there, or they are not, and if they are not, then I suggest you re-think the fee structure rather than trying to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-28 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Transaction fees are a DoS mitigating cost to the person making the transaction, but they are generally not paid to the people who actually incur costs in validating the blockchain. Actual transaction processing costs are an externality that is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-28 Thread Justus Ranvier
On 02/28/2014 07:25 PM, Mark Friedenbach wrote: Transaction fees are a DoS mitigating cost to the person making the transaction, but they are generally not paid to the people who actually incur costs in validating the blockchain. Actual transaction processing costs are an externality that is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-28 Thread Drak
On 28 February 2014 14:42, Warren Togami Jr. wtog...@gmail.com wrote: https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin/commit/db4d8e21d99551bef4c807aa1534a074e4b7964d In one way in particular, the transaction fees per kilobyte completely failed to account for the actual cost to the network. If

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-27 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
To each his own, but if I say Please don't charge me for YOUR privacy by putting junk like stealth addresses in the blockchain, I think I'd get laughed out of most rooms. Either the transaction fees are sufficient to pay the cost for whatever random junk anyone wants to put there, or they are

[Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
An update in forthcoming 0.9 release includes a change to make OP_RETURN standard, permitted a small amount of metadata to be attached to a transaction: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2738 There was always going to be some level of controversy attached to this. However, some issues,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Pieter Wuille
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: I do think regular transactions should have the ability to include some metadata. and 2) Endorsement of chain data storage. Nothing could be further from the truth. These two statements are in direct contradiction with

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
(fscking 'send' hotkey in GMail) Not really - a MasterCoin or JPEG image transaction is not a regular transaction. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Pieter Wuille pieter.wui...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: I do think regular

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
Not really -- a MasterCoin transaction or JPEG On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Pieter Wuille pieter.wui...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: I do think regular transactions should have the ability to include some metadata. and 2)

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Gavin Andresen
40 bytes is small enough to never require an OP_PUSHDATA1, too, which will make writing the OP_RETURN-as-standard BIP simpler. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Wladimir laa...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: A common IRC proposal

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Pavol Rusnak
On 02/24/2014 05:45 PM, Gavin Andresen wrote: 40 bytes is small enough to never require an OP_PUSHDATA1, too So are 75 bytes. (I'm not trying to push anything. Just saying ...) -- Best Regards / S pozdravom, Pavol Rusnak st...@gk2.sk

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
This PR reduces the size to 40 bytes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3737 (Note - this is not intended to close the discussion... please do keep sending in feedback) On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: An update in forthcoming 0.9 release includes a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Jeremy Spilman
On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:10:26 -0800, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: This PR reduces the size to 40 bytes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3737 Just quickly GLANCED at it, but if I understand correctly how the template matching code works, that will change max size of the data to

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Jeff Garzik
Sure, no objection to that. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Jeremy Spilman jer...@taplink.co wrote: On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 09:10:26 -0800, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: This PR reduces the size to 40 bytes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3737 Just quickly GLANCED at it, but

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Andreas Petersson
Regarding 80 bytes vs smaller: The objectives should be that if you are determined to put some extra data in the blockchain, OP_RETURN should be the superior alternative. if a user can include more data with less fees using a multisig TX, then this will happen. eventually dust-limit rules will

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Luke-Jr
On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:06:30 PM Andreas Petersson wrote: Regarding 80 bytes vs smaller: The objectives should be that if you are determined to put some extra data in the blockchain, OP_RETURN should be the superior alternative. if a user can include more data with less fees using a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] On OP_RETURN in upcoming 0.9 release

2014-02-24 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Andreas Petersson andr...@petersson.at wrote: Regarding 80 bytes vs smaller: The objectives should be that if you are determined to put some extra data in the blockchain, OP_RETURN should be the superior alternative. if a user can include more data with less