Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-25 Thread kjj
Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > Mark Friedenbach wrote: >> Bitcoin is not a centralized system, and neither is its development. I >> don't even know how to respond to that. Bringing up altchains is a total >> red herring. >> >> This is *bitcoin*-development. Please don't make it have to become a >> moder

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-25 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 01:57:14PM -0700, Mark Friedenbach wrote: > On 03/24/2014 01:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > > I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be > > more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system > > in which I have the cap

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-24 Thread Luke-Jr
On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:47:02 AM Peter Todd wrote: > To make a long story short, it was soon suggested that Bitcoin Core be > forked - the software, not the protocol - and miners encouraged to > support it. There's been at least one public miner-oriented fork of Bitcoin Core since 0.7 or ea

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-24 Thread Mark Friedenbach
On 03/24/2014 01:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > I'm here because I want to sell corn for bitcoin, and I believe it will be > more profitable for me to do that with a bitcoin-blockchain-based system > in which I have the capability to audit the code that executes the trade. A discussion over such

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-24 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
I think that's fair, so long as we limit bitcoin-development discussion to issues that are relevant to the owners of the hashrate and companies that pay developer salaries. What I'm asking for is some honesty that Bitcoin is a centralized system and to stop arguing technical points on the altar of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-23 Thread Mark Friedenbach
This isn't distributed-systems-development, it is bitcoin-development. Discussion over chain parameters is a fine thing to have among people who are interested in that sort of thing. But not here. On 03/23/2014 04:17 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > I find it very irresponsible for Bitcoiners to on o

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-23 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
> > Right, but there's also a lot of the community who thinks > > proof-of-publication applications are bad and should be discouraged. I > > argued before that the way OP_RETURN was being deployed didn't actually > > give any reason to use it vs. other data encoding methods. > > > > Unfortunately u

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-23 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 03:08:25PM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: > On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 10:08:36AM -0500, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 04:47:02AM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: > > > There's been a lot of recent hoopla over proof-of-publication, with the > > > OP_RETURN length getti

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-22 Thread Jorge Timón
On 3/22/14, Peter Todd wrote: > Well remember that my thinking re: UTXO is that we need to move to a > system like TXO commitments where storing the entirety of the UTXO set > for all eternity is *not* required. Of course, that doesn't necessarily > mean you can't have the advantages of UTXO commi

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-22 Thread Peter Todd
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 02:53:41PM +0100, Jorge Timón wrote: > On 3/22/14, Peter Todd wrote: > > There's been a lot of recent hoopla over proof-of-publication, with the > > OP_RETURN length getting reduced to a rather useless 40 bytes at > > the last minute prior to the 0.9 release. > > > I'm n

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-22 Thread Peter Todd
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 10:08:36AM -0500, Troy Benjegerdes wrote: > On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 04:47:02AM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: > > There's been a lot of recent hoopla over proof-of-publication, with the > > OP_RETURN length getting reduced to a rather useless 40 bytes at > > the last minute prior

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-22 Thread Mark Friedenbach
Please, by all means: ignore our well-reasoned arguments about externalized storage and validation cost and alternative solutions. Please re-discover how proof of publication doesn't require burdening the network with silly extra data that must be transmitted, kept, and validated from now until the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-22 Thread Troy Benjegerdes
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 04:47:02AM -0400, Peter Todd wrote: > There's been a lot of recent hoopla over proof-of-publication, with the > OP_RETURN length getting reduced to a rather useless 40 bytes at > the last minute prior to the 0.9 release. Secondly I noticed a > overlooked security flaw in th

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Handling miner adoption gracefully for embedded consensus systems via double-spending/replace-by-fee

2014-03-22 Thread Jorge Timón
On 3/22/14, Peter Todd wrote: > There's been a lot of recent hoopla over proof-of-publication, with the > OP_RETURN length getting reduced to a rather useless 40 bytes at > the last minute prior to the 0.9 release. I'm not against about miners accepting transactions that have longer data in no