Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Peter Todd
On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 06:00:37AM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: > That reminds me - I need to integrate the patch that automatically sweeps > anyone-can-pay transactions for a miner. You mean anyone-can-spend? I've got code that does this actually: https://github.com/petertodd/replace-by-fee-tools/

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Tier Nolan
Sorry for the spam of the last mail. I hit send by accident. Assurance contracts are better than simple donations. Donating to a project means that you always end up losing the money but the project might still not get funded. An assurance contract is like Kickstarter, you only get your CC char

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Tier Nolan
On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Benjamin wrote: > AC does not solve the problem. AC works if people gain directly from > the payment. Not necessarily. > Imagine a group of people paying tax - nobody gains from > paying it. You have to actually need to enforce negative outcomes to > ena

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Benjamin
>> Imagine a group of 1000 people who want to make a donation of 50BTC to >> something. They all way that they will donate 0.05BTC, but only if everyone >> else donates. It still isn't perfect. Everyone has an incentive to wait until the last minute to pledge. << AC does not solve the problem

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Tier Nolan
Just to clarify the process. Pledgers create transactions using the following template and broadcast them. The p2p protocol could be modified to allow this, or it could be a separate system. *Input: 0.01 BTC* *Signed with SIGHASH_ANYONE_CAN_PAY* *Output 50BTC* *Paid to: <1 million> OP_CHECK

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Benjamin
Interesting. 1. How do you know who was first? If one node can figure out where more transactions happen he can gain an advantage by being closer to him. Mining would not be fair. 2. "A merchant wants to cause block number 1 million to effectively have a minting fee of 50BTC." - why should he do

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Jeff Garzik
That reminds me - I need to integrate the patch that automatically sweeps anyone-can-pay transactions for a miner. On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Tier Nolan wrote: > One of the suggestions to avoid the problem of fees going to zero is > assurance contracts. This lets users (perhaps large merc

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-08 Thread Mike Hearn
Looks like a neat solution, Tier. -- One dashboard for servers and applications across Physical-Virtual-Cloud Widest out-of-the-box monitoring support with 50+ applications Performance metrics, stats and reports that give

[Bitcoin-development] Assurance contracts to fund the network with OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY

2015-05-07 Thread Tier Nolan
One of the suggestions to avoid the problem of fees going to zero is assurance contracts. This lets users (perhaps large merchants or exchanges) pay to support the network. If insufficient people pay for the contract, then it fails. Mike Hearn suggests one way of achieving it, but it doesn't act