[Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
Proxying another's idea, from CoinSummit. The request: It would be useful to limit the lifetime of a bitcoin address. Intentionally prevent (somehow) bitcoins being sent to a pubkey/pkh after the key expires. You could append don't [permit|confirm] after X [time|block] to the address I

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Wladimir
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: Proxying another's idea, from CoinSummit. The request: It would be useful to limit the lifetime of a bitcoin address. Intentionally prevent (somehow) bitcoins being sent to a pubkey/pkh after the key expires. Payment

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Peter Todd
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 04:00:41AM -0400, Jeff Garzik wrote: Proxying another's idea, from CoinSummit. The request: It would be useful to limit the lifetime of a bitcoin address. Intentionally prevent (somehow) bitcoins being sent to a pubkey/pkh after the key expires. You could append

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Wladimir laa...@gmail.com wrote: In my opinion encouraging the use of the payment protocol and deprecating the use of addresses is the best way forward, and not just for this reason. There are major gaps that the payment protocol doesn't cover. There are

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Wladimir
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:23 AM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:19 AM, Wladimir laa...@gmail.com wrote: There are major gaps that the payment protocol doesn't cover. There are several deployed use cases where you are provided/request an address, an API

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeremy Spilman
Payment Protocol would probably be the communication format for any new meta-data. What's the likelihood of something like this every making it on the blockchain? -- Want fast and easy access to all the code in your

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Mike Hearn
The request: It would be useful to limit the lifetime of a bitcoin address. Not only useful but essential! Otherwise mobile clients can run out of RAM and have to cycle around and reuse addresses. Which is indeed why BIP70 has this feature. It was thought about quite some time ago.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
BIP70 does not work well for unknown number of future payments of unknown, unpredictable value. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 6:25 AM, Mike Hearn m...@plan99.net wrote: The request: It would be useful to limit the lifetime of a bitcoin address. Not only useful but essential! Otherwise mobile

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Mike Hearn
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jeff Garzik jgar...@bitpay.com wrote: BIP70 does not work well for unknown number of future payments of unknown, unpredictable value. You can specify zero as an output value, in which case it's the same as no value specified. You can then just reuse the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Luke Dashjr
On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 8:00:41 AM Jeff Garzik wrote: Proxying another's idea, from CoinSummit. The request: It would be useful to limit the lifetime of a bitcoin address. Intentionally prevent (somehow) bitcoins being sent to a pubkey/pkh after the key expires. You could append

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Luke Dashjr l...@dashjr.org wrote: They can already do this. It's perfectly valid for wallets/services to ignore (and not consider as payment) transactions using an address more than once. There might be race attacks if this is implemented in an immediate

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Mike Hearn
Payment protocol just doesn't well the use cases of, * an on-going payment stream from, e.g. Eligius to coinbase * deposit addresses and deposit situations This seems to be the key point of disagreement here. Wladimir and I think it satisfies your requirement just fine. You disagree. Let's

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
This is a well known problem of BIP 70 from day one, because BIP 70 functions at too-low a level. What needs to be negotiated between parties is a _payment relationship_ that exchanges HD wallet data. This is what is necessary to establish and maintain an ongoing payment relationship. BIP 70 is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Luke Dashjr
On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 3:11:25 PM Jeff Garzik wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Luke Dashjr l...@dashjr.org wrote: They can already do this. It's perfectly valid for wallets/services to ignore (and not consider as payment) transactions using an address more than once. There might

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Jeff Garzik
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Luke Dashjr l...@dashjr.org wrote: There's no reason deposits cannot use a unique payment request or address every time... Actually, and this is key, there _are_ reasons why deposits might not be able to use PaymentRequests. Payments happen even when

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Bitcoin address TTL key expiration?

2014-07-15 Thread Mike Hearn
Actually, and this is key, there _are_ reasons why deposits might not be able to use PaymentRequests. Payments happen even when wallets/computers are offline. I don't understand this point. It's the *sender* that is parsing the PaymentRequest and following the instructions. By definition