Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Adam Back
On 20 December 2014 at 14:48, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: We need the following primitives operating on message m, pubkey p, and a valid signature sig1 for m, p: AntiReplaySign(m, p, sig1) - sig2 VerifyAntiReplaySig(m, p, sig2) - True or False Additionally once

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread paul snow
On Dec 20, 2014 8:49 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: However the converse is not possible: anti-replay cannot be used to implement proof-of-publication. Knowing that no conflicting message exists says nothing about who be in posession of that message, or indeed, any message at all. Thus

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Peter Todd
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 07:49:17AM -0600, paul snow wrote: On Dec 20, 2014 8:49 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: However the converse is not possible: anti-replay cannot be used to implement proof-of-publication. Knowing that no conflicting message exists says nothing about who be

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Peter Todd
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 10:01:37AM +, Adam Back wrote: On 20 December 2014 at 14:48, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: We need the following primitives operating on message m, pubkey p, and a valid signature sig1 for m, p: AntiReplaySign(m, p, sig1) - sig2

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Peter Todd
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 03:11:32PM +0800, Mark Friedenbach wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Right, so Freimarkets is deliberately insecure. Please define your terms, particularly what your security requirements are here. In the architecture we

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread paul snow
I could play the game where I say, You don't understand, and, like you, not address any of your points. First, there is no dependence on implementation in my arguments. If a system can prevent replay by some set of rules, it necessarily must be able to answer the question if a message is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Peter Todd
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:25:36PM +0100, Jorge Timón wrote: So let's go through an example to see in which ways non-proof-of-publication orders are insecure. Alice the seller wants to sell 1 unit of A for 100 units of B. Bob is willing to pay up to 200 Bs for 1 A. Let's assume a proof of

Re: [Bitcoin-development] one-show signatures (Re: The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles)

2014-12-21 Thread Peter Todd
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 06:10:47PM +, Adam Back wrote: Yes you could for example define a new rule that two signatures (double-spend) authorises something - eg miners to take funds. (And this would work with existing ECDSA addresses unrestricted R-value choices). I wasnt really making

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Jorge Timón
On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 12:25:36PM +0100, Jorge Timón wrote: So let's go through an example to see in which ways non-proof-of-publication orders are insecure. Alice the seller wants to sell 1 unit of A for 100 units of B.

Re: [Bitcoin-development] The relationship between Proof-of-Publication and Anti-Replay Oracles

2014-12-21 Thread Peter Todd
On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 09:48:01AM -0500, Peter Todd wrote: Andrew Miller asked me to publish the following to the mailing list on his behalf: (https://twitter.com/socrates1024/status/546819355565391872) One of the main points in this note is that you can use a proof-of-publication system to