Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-06-18 Thread Isidor Zeuner
quote: [...] On 4/24/14, Chris Pacia ctpa...@gmail.com wrote: It would work but it's an ugly hack IMO. What do people do if they don't have extra to pay when making a purchase? I have 200 mbtc and want to buy a 200 mbtc phone but I can't because I need 400 mbtc. Sucks for me. I would

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-25 Thread Mike Hearn
You don't get any money back, but you do get an angry shopkeeper chasing you down the street / calling the police / blacklisting you from the store. If they could do that they'd just take the stolen property back and you would have failed to spend your money twice. So this is by definition,

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-25 Thread Gareth Williams
On 25/04/14 20:19, Mike Hearn wrote: You don't get any money back, but you do get an angry shopkeeper chasing you down the street / calling the police / blacklisting you from the store. If they could do that they'd just take the stolen property back and you would have failed

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Mike Hearn
Am I missing something? The scheme you described does nothing about Finney attacks, which is the issue presently faced. -- Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Chris Pacia
This scheme would discourage people from attempting a Finney attack because they would end up worse off if they did. It would work but it's an ugly hack IMO. What do people do if they don't have extra to pay when making a purchase? I have 200 mbtc and want to buy a 200 mbtc phone but I can't

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Mike Hearn
This scheme would discourage people from attempting a Finney attack because they would end up worse off if they did. Phrased another way, it simply makes every block a Finney attack that charges the maximum double spending fee possible. This doesn't solve the problem. Beyond needing to double

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Peter Todd
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:48:54PM +0200, Jorge Timón wrote: Here is a solution to the problem of having 0 confirmation transactions FWIW I'm running an experiment right now to detect how easy it is to doublespend 0-conf transactions I need to collect more data, but initial results indicate

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Jorge Timón
On 4/24/14, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: ... With replace-by-fee scorched-earth the success rate of such double-spends would be significantly reduced as the attacker would need to get lucky with bad propagation not just once, but twice in a row. Interesting. Replace-by-fee and

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Mike Hearn
Of course if we're not comparing this with Bitcoin today and we're comparing it to some theoretical mechanism for instant p2p serialization without requiring proof of work then, yes, this concept is not very interesting. Bitcoin's competition is not some theoretical perfect p2p system but

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Jannis Froese
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 24.04.2014 14:15, Mike Hearn wrote: Beyond needing to double balances, what if the shop is selling me a phone on contract? So the actual cost of the phone is lower than the real price on the assumption of future revenue. Alice double spends

Re: [Bitcoin-development] 0 confirmation txs using replace-by-fee and game theory

2014-04-24 Thread Gareth Williams
On 24/04/14 22:07, Chris Pacia wrote: It would work but it's an ugly hack IMO. What do people do if they don't have extra to pay when making a purchase? I have 200 mbtc and want to buy a 200 mbtc phone but I can't because I need 400 mbtc. Sucks for me. I don't see why it couldn't work with